I originally posted these over at ToT but have only received minor attention. I was hoping I could get some input from some of you seasoned collectors on this topic... I've edited the original post(s) for clarification, grammar and to reduce redundancies.

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Basic Set

I've never heard much discussion about this but there are distinct differences in the 1st and 2nd print Moldvay Basic sets. I hope to illustrate and document here:


The original box (left) for the 1st edition is made using the same "tip-on-board' construction of the earlier, pre-1980s TSR boxed sets (i.e.: Warlocks & Warriors, Lankhmar, Knights of Camelot, etc.). The tip-on is a process where the artwork is printed onto a thin "slick" and that is thermally adhered to a chipboard substrate. The very thin paper slick is what "binds" the corners together. This is why these break so easily.

The 2nd print of the box (right) is printed using the later "direct-to-board" style printing. This is just what the term implies. The artwork is printed directly to white card-stock. Then the box is formed much like origami where the corners are glued folded into themselves. Most of the TSR boxes from 1980 onward use this method... even the Dungeon! and Fantasy Forrest "long-box" games.



There are other differences as well; some that may have been pointed out before such as the the text on the box bottom being totally different and the print dates on the side of the box differing as well.


...and lastly the dice changed at some point in too. the earlier sets have the more crude looking dice on the left. These are mistakenly referred to as Dragon Dice... or Low impact dice. These actually hold up better than the Holmes set dice and the later Dragon Dice that came in later prints of the Basic and expert rules and as late as the early Mentzer sets. The dice on the left have more moulding marks than the Dragon Dice on the Right and came in shades of powder-blue to turquoise and shades of brown. The Dragon Dice are quite nice but disintegrate and flake easily. These came in a slew of colors... earlier sets seemed to be baby blue or Navy with the other bright colors coming right after.

Now, I have seen Basic sets with 1st print books and early dice but with the  Direct-to-board boxes. I have also seen a few Expert sets with the Tip-on boxes but these seem to be even more rare.

...And the Expert Set:
I'm trying to differentiate between the print runs of the Basic and Expert Sets. I recently found a TRUE 1st print of an Expert set.

Features unique to this printing:
Tip-On-Board (older style) box
Wide banner 1st print X1
Older dice
1st printing of the Gateway to Adventure.







Page two depicts the "Holmes" edition Basic cover and the Expert Set as "coming soon".


Pre "Dragon Dice"

Yes, that's pretty cool to see.

I believe the aussie red box set has 2 different printings as well... have to pull em out and have a look

Brette:)

FormCritic wrote:Exact types of dice cannot be used to measure print runs or order of publication because TSR guys elsewhere have informed us that there were boxes and boxes of them mixed up in the TSR warehouse.

I think Tim and Frank were referring to the earlier "polydice" dice from the 70s. Apparently there were a few different sources for these and some slight differences (pink d6 vs orange d6, etc.).

The dice found in the 1980-81 Basic and Experts sets seems to be exclusive to those sets (maybe they also came in GW sets around the same time?)

I say this because in almost all cases that I have found complete early B/X sets the dice came bagged.... just like the ones pictured above... even the brown ones pictured above came in a bag but it had a hole it it so I carefully removed the dice for the photo. Also, I have never seen mixed color sets of these particular dice. The Later "Dragon Dice that came in the mid-late B/X and Mentzer sets were often mixed colors as well as solid sets with the crayon IN the bag WITH the dice.

Another point I want to make about the printings of the Expert Set... I have a "1st" printing up on eBay right now that has the 1st printing booklet, a 2nd printing X1 and a 2nd printing of the '81 GtA. The box is the Direct-to-board style printing.



The bottom of the box has the black border around the warning... but it has the product code in the lower right corner... And it came with the later dice (Dragon Dice).

It's possible it's a frnknstn... but all of the booklets are in the same condition and the dice were sealed in the bag.

I would call this a 2nd Print Alpha... or a 1st+ print. The set pictured in my first post should be referred to as a True 1st Print.

HexMapper wrote:
This is an interesting point as my orignal dice from like 25+ years back seem intact, although not perfect

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Those are "pre-dragon dice"

They hold up quite well... the brown ones tend to be slightly softer.

They aren't the hardest plastic but they don't chip-away like the Dragon Dice.

Avurax wrote:  Where did the dice diverge?

I'll address the other stuff later... but I do know my Aunt had a Fourth print Moldvay set that I inherited and I know she had the older (left) dice... Weird right? But I dunno if these came from somewhere else.

It is possible that the earlier sets came with the left type and then they stared using the "Dragon Dice" when they ran out of the "Older" dice... and it is possible they got the older dice "back in stock" at some point and they showed up in some middle or later boxes. I dunno.

But as a general rule... the Dragon Dice have only come in the 2nd prints at the absolute earliest. I think the bagged set on the right came from a 2nd or 3rd Expert set but were similar to the ones that came in that set when I got it. That bagged set is also similar to another Basic Set I purchased a while back (2nd or 3rd print) as well... that also had a "mixed bag" with the pipped d6. Incidentally the pipped d6 looks very similar to the dice used in the Minigames that I have.

The 1st+ Expert I have on eBay came with a solid red set of the later dice.

It would be easy to start taking notes of the B/X sets that pop up on eBay with dice and start a tally and an archive of the photos.