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Sometimes Old bastards CAN learn new tricks - 3.5 Edition
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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:40 am 
 

An Old schoolers first thoughts of TSRs 3.5 Edition D&D.

OK!  
I know its been out for a bazillion years now.
So I am slow….
For you young folks out there, it comes with age….
You will find out when you get old as I am.  :roll:

Part of my hesitation and delay was due to learning other systems.
Like Castles and Crusades, which as an old schooler I love with its simplistic system and VERY short stack of rules.
There are not 30,000 different splat books for C&C.

Of course I was mostly hesitant to learn how to DM Colton (or any of the other grandkids) running a PC that is a half red dragon half orc Lawful Good Paladin with a fire breath attack.......  8O  

Anyway, since Colton will be playing in a 3.5 Ed game this coming weekend, I decided (several weeks ago) to try to purchase the three main core rules books for 3.5 Edition and read or at least flip through them before then.

I waited to buy them until I was able to find copies on the cheap, which took a lot longer than I had planned, or hoped, but I was finally able to snag a PHB for $5 (Its cover is beat to hell and some inside pages are damaged from some spill in the past, and a few pages stick together (I have no clue why and likely don't want to know) but it is mostly legible) and I was also able to get the Fist MM, and the Core DMG each for under $12.

Still have not cracked open the DM Guide and likely won't get a chance to until after the convention this coming weekend.

But, after a preliminary spin through the Monster Manual and after reading about 1/3 rd of the Players Handbook (I purposefully picked specific parts to start with first), they both seem fairly straightforward and not nearly so weird as I have been thinking while looking in from the outside.

I am also quite empressed with some of the things I found too.
There is a LOT of stuff crammed into the PHB.
Some of it I really like too.

I still don't want to DM Colton (or any of the other grandkids) running a PC that is a half red dragon half orc Lawful Good Paladin with a fire breath attack, but perhaps there is some hope for my old school self after all.


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Last edited by Gnat the Beggar on Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
  

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:16 am 
 

It's not so hard to DM a PC that is a half red dragon half orc Lawful Good Paladin with a fire breath attack.

It's trying to DM or play a PC that is a half red dragon half orc Lawful Good Paladin with a fire breath attack and Kung Fu Grip !

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:57 am 
 

Congratulations on your upcoming game and I hope that it turns out well.  Just watch out for some of the unexpected spell changes (darkness now = dimness being the one that I had to get used to).  The half this, that and the other thing PCs are just a matter of setting limits for what you want to deal with (and limit the bloat).

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:59 am 
 

Some of the concepts in it look intriguing.

I had to be forcibly dragged into playing 2E, before discovering that it was actually an improvement.

I'm still leaving an open mind about 3/4, and maybe I'll actually play them someday.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:59 am 
 

Gnat the Beggar wrote:I still don't want to DM Colton (or any of the other grandkids) running a PC that is a half red dragon half orc Lawful Good Paladin with a fire breath attack, but perhaps there is some hope for my old school self after all.

I agree with you there. I like the 3.5 rule set, but I would do my best to avoid having any player run a character that is an amalgam of features just because it can be done.
For NPCs, on the other hand, it's great to have those options available...  :twisted:


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:25 pm 
 

Gnat the Beggar wrote:An Old schoolers first thoughts of TSRs 3.5 Edition D&D.

OK!  
I know its been out for a bazillion years now.
So I am slow….
For you young folks out there, it comes with age….
You will find out when you get old as I am.  :roll:

Part of my hesitation and delay was due to learning other systems.
Like Castles and Crusades, which as an old schooler I love with its simplistic system and VERY short stack of rules.
There are not 30,000 different splat books for C&C.

Of course I was mostly hesitant to learn how to DM Colton (or any of the other grandkids) running a PC that is a half red dragon half orc Lawful Good Paladin with a fire breath attack.......  8O  

Anyway, since Colton will be playing in a 3.5 Ed game this coming weekend, I decided (several weeks ago) to try to purchase the three main core rules books for 3.5 Edition and read or at least flip through them before then.

I waited to buy them until I was able to find copies on the cheap, which took a lot longer than I had planned, or hoped, but I was finally able to snag a PHB for $5 (Its cover is beat to hell and some inside pages are damaged from some spill in the past, and a few pages stick together (I have no clue why and likely don't want to know) but it is mostly legible) and a MM, and DMG each for under $12.

Still have not cracked open the DM Guide yet and likely won't get a chance to until after the convention this coming weekend.

But, after a preliminary spin through the Monster Manual and after reading about 1/3 rd of the Players Handbook (I purposefully picked specific parts to start with first), they both seem fairly straightforward and not nearly so weird as I have been thinking while looking in from the outside.

I am also quite empressed with some of the things I found too.
There is a LOT of stuff crammed into the PHB.
Some of it I really like too.

I still don't want to DM Colton (or any of the other grandkids) running a PC that is a half red dragon half orc Lawful Good Paladin with a fire breath attack, but perhaps there is some hope for my old school self after all.


I'd stick with C&C.

Lots of comparisons to 3.5 without BEING 3.5....and as you said very simple rules set that is easy to learn.   The problem, as in any system (even 2E which we play), is when you start bringing in all the "other" stuff...and it quickly gets out of hand.  If someone was able to maintain a VERY firm hand on what books were allowed, I think they could make it work, but the nature of the beast is more, more, more, especially when you are talking teenagers (who love to power game).

And then, yes, you will have players wanted to play the half orc/dragon paladin....

I'm absolutely convinced at least half the 2E splatbook stuff was NEVER playtested before being tossed out there....and I'd bet there are even more classes/rules/spells/monsters in 3.5 that have the same problem.

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:49 pm 
 

I still play 1st ed and haven't even read the 2nd ed PHB or DMG..!  Should I really move on?? I don't know, but I love the fact I know all about the way 1st ed plays and don't really have any dramas playing it...

Perhaps its time to move on, but for now, I'll stick with my original..  :D


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:56 pm 
 

I will never stop enjoying 1st or 2nd Edition and I am loving the simple life with C&C too.

So even if we (meaning the kids) begin to play some 3.5 Edition, the other systems wont just fade away.

Last weekend, Colton ran a thief in Gamblers Quest which is an Expeditious Retreat Press Module (One of the 1 on 1 adventures).
We finished it in one and a half days (about 8 hours total time).
He had a lot of fun playing and it was fun for me, and was very easy to DM too.


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Stated by me as a PC during a run of Tegel Manor DMed by killjoy at NTRPGCon 2010

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:03 pm 
 

d20 Fantasy is relatively easy to run, up until around 7th level, and then it starts to get much more complex. At 15+, it is even more complicated. If the players are playing spellcasters (something very easy to do in d20), then it can get harder sooner... but, I've always at least mildly liked d20 up to about 5th level of play. But, when I played, I also dumped most of the combat stuff.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:29 pm 
 

Gnat the Beggar wrote:
I know its been out for a bazillion years now.
So I am slow….
For you young folks out there, it comes with age….
You will find out when you get old as I am.  :roll:


I just assumed you guys were all in your 30's :)
Exactly how old are you anyways? :lol:  :bigsmurf:

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:50 pm 
 

misterspock wrote:I just assumed you guys were all in your 30's :)
Exactly how old are you anyways? :lol:  :bigsmurf:



I am a grandpa 5 times over (the oldest is 13 years old next week) and our daughter is an only child......  8)  

Other than that.... Well.  :)
Lets just say that the Developers of OD&D and the other first RPGs only have a few years on me and leave it at that.   :lol:


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Stated by me as a PC during a run of Tegel Manor DMed by killjoy at NTRPGCon 2010

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:29 pm 
 

ashmire13 wrote:I still play 1st ed and haven't even read the 2nd ed PHB or DMG..!  Should I really move on?? I don't know, but I love the fact I know all about the way 1st ed plays and don't really have any dramas playing it...

Perhaps its time to move on, but for now, I'll stick with my original..  :D


PLAY BOTH!  PLAY THEM ALL!

Although I don't like 4th Edition, I have played it a few times.

At the moment I play in a 3.5 D&D Game (same campaign, same players since 1996), and now recently in a 1.0 D&D Game (with Bracton, Stratochamp, Frank, etc.).

Yes it's a different ruleset, but they're not that difficult to learn.

I enjoy D&D for the people I get to meet and play with, not for the ruleset.

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:44 pm 
 

Invincible Overlord wrote:


I enjoy D&D for the people I get to meet and play with, not for the ruleset.


Exactly!

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:23 pm 
 

I quite like 3.5, and Pathfinder RPG should be a good improvement to that.
Heck I experienced my first OD&D (white box set) game session last year - had a blast.  But I'm quite used to 3.5 and don't see myself changing anytime soon.

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:01 pm 
 

Invincible Overlord wrote:
PLAY BOTH!  PLAY THEM ALL!

Although I don't like 4th Edition, I have played it a few times.

At the moment I play in a 3.5 D&D Game (same campaign, same players since 1996), and now recently in a 1.0 D&D Game (with Bracton, Stratochamp, Frank, etc.).

Yes it's a different ruleset, but they're not that difficult to learn.

I enjoy D&D for the people I get to meet and play with, not for the ruleset.


So, if I bite the bullet and give 3.5 a go, can I get away with just having the DMG, PHB and a MM? Or are there 35 other 'classes' or 'kit' books that I need as well...  :lol:


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:30 pm 
 

From what little I have read so far, the only other books I would want is the Swords & Sorcery Hardback book: Relics and Rituals.

The only reason I wanted to get that one is that some D20 Modules, including the DCC modules mention this book as a resource for information about new magic items and other things.
I got one for about $4-$5 on E-Bay and did not fight for it at all. 8)

I am NOT going to be buying any of the splat books.

However (eventually) I might try to snap up some or all of the other Monster Manuals though.
After all; You can Never have too many critters, flying, crawling, stumbling, shuffling, oozing, slithering, lying undead, and otherwise roaming, or stomping about in your dungeon. :twisted:


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:43 pm 
 

ashmire13 wrote:
So, if I bite the bullet and give 3.5 a go, can I get away with just having the DMG, PHB and a MM? Or are there 35 other 'classes' or 'kit' books that I need as well...  :lol:


Just like any other version of D&D, all you need is the core for years of fun.  Splats are for generating income for the company and not much else.

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:41 pm 
 

If you enjoy adventuring beyond the prime material plane, the Planar Handbook and the Manual of the Planes are nice books to have.  As are the two Fiendish Codexes.


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