I wouldn't say that the Tome of Treasures exactle legitimizes these copies:

http://tomeoftreasures.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3965

No. What I meant was, we don't actively 'out' the photocopying of legitimate items. Be that photocopying them yesterday, last year or a decade ago. They are not exactly legitimate products.

Now I accept that with tourneys and fanzines, that was the accepted means of doing things, and certainly the only economic way of a lot of things getting printed in the early 80's. But there is a difference between a xeroxed book bound and stapled that was always a xeroxed book bound and stapled, and a photocopy of an otherwise legitimate product.

These 3rd print PoVQs were hawked around conventions for the best part of a decade, and sold as copies of an otherwise unavailable product. But with the comming of the internet, all of a sudden they are a fabled 3rd printing which is bollocks. And I'm not saying these are the product of any one individual. Indeed, Mr Zocchi went so far as to put his name on the ones he had manufactured. But they were certainly photocopied here in the UK also, and probably in a dozen other games shops accross the US.

And if they are 'legitimate real printings' than what's happened to the orange cover PoVQ from Mathias' old site. It must surely be the rarest of all PoVQs. A photocopy with a simple typed cover spiral bound.

IMO, the third print is a photocopy spree that ran rampage through the US and the UK. None of them are real. I do recall Pete Kerestan visiting this site in the dim and distant past. I wonder if he could confirm the legitimacy of the 3rd print, and who he gave permission to manufacture them to?

But without any real proof that these photocopies are real PoVQ's they are fakes. They may be 10 year old fakes, but a fake is a fake.

mbassoc2003 wrote:No. What I meant was, we don't actively 'out' the photocopying of legitimate items. Be that photocopying them yesterday, last year or a decade ago. They are not exactly legitimate products.

Now I accept that with tourneys and fanzines, that was the accepted means of doing things, and certainly the only economic way of a lot of things getting printed in the early 80's. But there is a difference between a xeroxed book bound and stapled that was always a xeroxed book bound and stapled, and a photocopy of an otherwise legitimate product.

These 3rd print PoVQs were hawked around conventions for the best part of a decade, and sold as copies of an otherwise unavailable product. But with the comming of the internet, all of a sudden they are a fabled 3rd printing which is bollocks. And I'm not saying these are the product of any one individual. Indeed, Mr Zocchi went so far as to put his name on the ones he had manufactured. But they were certainly photocopied here in the UK also, and probably in a dozen other games shops accross the US.

And if they are 'legitimate real printings' than what's happened to the orange cover PoVQ from Mathias' old site. It must surely be the rarest of all PoVQs. A photocopy with a simple typed cover spiral bound.

IMO, the third print is a photocopy spree that ran rampage through the US and the UK. None of them are real. I do recall Pete Kerestan visiting this site in the dim and distant past. I wonder if he could confirm the legitimacy of the 3rd print, and who he gave permission to manufacture them to?

But without any real proof that these photocopies are real PoVQ's they are fakes. They may be 10 year old fakes, but a fake is a fake.

Glad I read this thread.

Blackmoor wrote:

Mars wrote:I wouldn't say that the Tome of Treasures exactle legitimizes these copies:

http://tomeoftreasures.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3965

I agree, ToT looks like it was trying to get to the bottom of it.

tfm posted on other thread to ok zocchi release as was shy to do on previous thread http://tomeoftreasures.com/forum/viewto ... ght=#16659 looks like could not resist jab also

mbassoc2003 wrote:If ever there were a time for Kynan to revisit, now would be it. His expertise in this matter are probably unparalleled.

^^ reads like changed mind already

mbassoc2003 wrote:And there's no way in hell WW had their own worldwide distribution deals.

check later white dwarf says distrib from zocchi to gw iirc. presume ww did have some knowledge of that

agree need to discount possible genuine overstock as easy to imagine not many willing in late 1970s to pay $$$$ for handful of photocopied sheets with not so good review. or else were meant as temporary only and shelved in favor of digest version?? or even to cover later but fell by wayside
do you know anyone with copy bought later to compare + are you sure did not have zocchi label that other copy from edinburgh did have

mbassoc2003 wrote:Either way, there's no way of telling the vast majority of fakes from the few remaining vaguely legitimate copies. Anyone can print a Zocchi label if you were gonna use the Zocchie label as the 'hey look it must be real'.

no doubt more difficult than usual but did people realise 20 years ago + bother to add that detail. best to stick to black folder if unsure ^^

nice one on battletech btw

mbassoc2003 wrote:And the community online is shite too

-v- mebbe so but did not get killed like gw did their forums
always degrees of serious + someone who is more fanatical fan everything in moderation except desire to find box of genuine potvqs ob3s or st1s eh?? ^^
you can see LZ as supplier for back in stock potvq in those wds now??

Rakeesh sah Tarna wrote:you can see LZ as supplier for back in stock potvq in those wds now??

Maybe in the early to mid '80s. Not plausable IMO for LZ to have supplied the stock that was available at con's in the late '80s and early '90s. If so, that would beg the question why LZ not still selling them and wht NKG hasn't got box loads.

IMO, UK 3rd print PoVQs are fakes, and a large proportion of US 3rd print PoVQs are fakes. They may vary in photocopy date between the mid 80's through to the mid '90s, and some may even have been photocopies more recently. Either way, they are still fake.

A black foldered version, or a folderless with the correcxt halftone printing and paper, or the digest versions are the only validated legitimate printings of PoVQ. I'd be in the market for a black foldered PoVQ at the right price, or a good clean digest, but I wouldn't touch a 3rd print even if it were going for $10.

mbassoc2003 wrote:

Rakeesh sah Tarna wrote:you can see LZ as supplier for back in stock potvq in those wds now??

Maybe in the early to mid '80s.

LZ from wd#4 but supplier annotation dropped later across board

mbassoc2003 wrote:Not plausable IMO for LZ to have supplied the stock that was available at con's in the late '80s and early '90s.

recently closed hobby shop?? who knows for sure??