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Post Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:45 pm 
 

Just happened across a review for WOTCs latest 4e module, H3 Pyramid of Shadows.  The review is great and makes it sound hilariously old school, basically a dimensional prison full of wacked out encounters making no sense.  The reviewer seems to think the writers have channeled S2 White Plume Mountain in the writing of H3. Am I wrong to want to read this?

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/13/13942.phtml

Small exceprt:

Thus: in the Pyramid of Shadows, the reason there's a 50' dragon in a 10' room is because it wants to be in there. And the whole Pyramid is like this, a kaliedescope of utterly different and bizarrely fragmened mini-locations, each of which has nothing to do with the other locations in the dungeon beyond sharing a 10' corridor that links them. Lofty, loam-coated gardens inhabited by an Aztec-like bloodthirsty race of plantmen are right up next to a sunken room filled with lizardmen equipped with, literally, Super-Mario-Brothers style pipes that suck people down into them and spit them up in random other locations in the dungeon. A white dragon has created an ice cave paradise of frozen grandeur to snooze in, and that's right down the hall from basically a high temple to Cthulhu, which is next to a room of elves who are just there because none of the power players in the Pyramid have bothered to wipe them out yet.

There's a band of utterly nonmagical mortal bandits who have managed to trap a werewolf in a room, but they're all scared of the succubus who spends her time praying in the Temple to Bahamut, which is next to the room with the teleporting fireball trap, which is just across the hallway from the room so stuffed full of random bones that PCs could suffocate when they open the door, which is just up the hallway from the ettin with his collection of phasing severed heads (!) and his pet carrion crawlers. This is, literally, how the whole adventure goes.

And it's a big place. The Pyramid is the largest adventuring site that Wizards has released yet for 4.0. Intriguingly, the random spots of craziness does serve to fit the theme of the place, a prison that reflects the nature of its prisoners back on themselves. It also makes for some very interesting (and possibly very difficult) set pieces. Nearly every room has some sort of effect, trap, trick, or other disabling bit of crazy that the PCs will have to deal with while still trying to defeat (or negotiate with) the monsters also in the room.


Mike B.


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:51 pm 
 

Sounds interesting.  Has WOTC published a 4e to 1e conversion booklet yet? :)

  

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:52 pm 
 

I wouldn't hold it against you for reading it. Not at all.

Although I've not played it yet myself, some of my friends* who have played it have suggested that 4e feels similar to 1st and 2nd edition in many ways. (Not in all ways, mind you.)

* These friends are all 30-something, so our exposure to 1st edition was not a particularly mature exposure. So that may taint our perspective a bit. I think most of us are more familiar with 2nd edition than we are with 1st edition.

Edit: I clarified "it" above to mean 4e in general, but not necessarily that module.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:57 pm 
 

Yes you are wrong for wanting to read this. Go flagellate yourself in an appropriate, public, manner.


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:15 pm 
 

sounds like tegel without the shrews
(sry ;) ;))

  

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:03 pm 
 

serleran wrote:Yes you are wrong for wanting to read this. Go flagellate yourself in an appropriate, public, manner.


I'm attaching rabid shrews to my cajones even as we speak.... :(

But I think I'm still going to peek a look at H3.  Sounds like a lot of what was missing in 3E, which seem to take itself with a deathly seriousness despite the presence of half dragon ninja/cleric/sorcerers with great cleave crowding up the place  :wink:

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:43 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:Sounds like a lot of what was missing in 3E, which seem to take itself with a deathly seriousness

4e still takes itself with a deathly seriousness ... just not in the same ways or perhaps in as many ways as 3e.

It all depends on what paradigms of 3e bugged you.

Certainly, if you're looking for a return to the wacky modules of the past, H3 sounds like it might be such a beast.

Not that 3e implicitly precluded wacky modules. Far from it.

Maybe your point is that WotC might be intentionally giving up its fear of the wacky.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:44 pm 
 

no need to pay $16.47 for silliness when plenty for free elsewhere http://www.enworld.org/forum/showpost.php?p=4438965 :o :o
dont sign me up please :lol: :lol:

right about wotc losing plot a bit + not knowing to take themselves seriously or not or trying to go back 25 years. no hint of marketing panic there/elsewhere??

  


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:39 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:The reviewer seems to think the writers have channeled S2 White Plume Mountain in the writing of H3.

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:52 pm 
 

Well, I got Pyramid (don't ask how) and have read it through once, skimming, and now I'm about halfway through in a more thorough reading.

It's damn good!

Very, VERY old school in concept and theme.  Ignore the stat encylopedias of all the characters and just focus on the three levels of rooms, and the monsters, and the fun of exploring a giant evil extradimensional pyramid controlled by a demonic force and inhabited by a "Who's Who" of random deadly monsters, each in a different enviroment.  Why?  Does it matter?  Just break out the weapons and get to hacking! But yeh, in all fairness, there is a very typical old school "find and collect" plot that moves the action along as the characters collect keys to escape the prison.  I won't say anymore so as not to spoil it.

I would agree with the reviews I read.  It reminds me of such classics as B4, S2, S4, and C1.....an enclosed adventuring enviornment (only meant for adventuring, mind you, as the ecology is illogical in the extreme) with a theme holding it together, and some small necessary justification as to why things are the way they are, but really, it's just a giant monster hotel with pretty maps.  And a big bad at the end (of course, at the top of the pyramid in the final room, would youhave it any other way???) waiting for the characters to solve the riddle of the pyramid and either destroy it or be destroyed.

Not a lot of roleplaying, although the rules delinate specific examples when this could happen, but really it's about kicking ass on dragons, necromancers, evil mages, plant creatures and other assorted baddies.  But then again, classics like S4 and S2 weren't about roleplaying either, if you want the truth.

Looks like lots of fun.  Almost hate to admit it........! But there it is.  I think the conversion to 1st or 2nd edition would be pretty simple.  Unlike a lot of the 3E stuff, which practically resisted conversion with an iron will (Just how DO you convert a 13th level half otyugh/dragonborn/dwarf ranger with 12 special fighting abilities???), this adventure could be easily redone in an hour or two.  

Now, it doesn't make me want to PLAY 4E...dealing with a lot of the factors involved would drive me insane...but I really think if they are looking to go "back" to a simpler time they have gotten it half right, at least.  It's by far the best pure dungeon crawl I've read in many, many years, and far superior to anything 3/3.5E WOTC put out the last eight years.  I'd rank it among the best of the DCC or Necromancer stuff.  And above all, I think it would be FUN to run or play in.  Anyone who is a hack and slash fan would adore this one! If you love to emote, this is not the module or the game for you....something very apparant right up front.

Thumbs up on Pyramid....if the rest of the 4E stuff is this good, I take back all the bad things I've said about them.  Time to search out H1 and H2 and give them another look I guess.....

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:53 am 
 

Good price at Amazon (where I also get free two-day shipping) ... finger hovering over the "1-Click" button ... I could have it here by Friday.  8O

Argh! What to do? I do love me some deathdrap dungeons ... but it's from The System That Won't Get Off My Lawn! I'm getting conflicting data here!

Ah, hell with it! Ordered.

Boo-yah!  :)

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:22 am 
 

BTW, a cursory glance through H1 and H2....bleh.  Not so much old school as H3.  It will remain to be seen if H3 is a trend, or an abberation.  H1 Keep on the Shadowfell tries mightily to channel the classic B2 Keep on the Borderlands, but fails IMO; H2 Thunderspire Labyrinth is a game attempt to replicate an underdark type adventure, complete with old-school norkers (and Duergar and other baddies), but seems a bit samey to me despite a few good encounters.  

Neither, however, are god-awful in the vein of a lot (ok, MOST) of the 3/3.5 stuff.  I wouldn't immediately draw my sword and kill anyone pulling one of these out at the gaming table, although personally I'd skip H1 as it did nothing for me good nor bad, which is the worst effect a module can have.  H2 I might give a closer read when I have time, nice maps if nothing else.  But H3 is the keeper here, definitely.  Hopefully they will keep this mindset through other 4E adventures, if so I'm going to cautiously look for them.

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:25 am 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:Good price at Amazon (where I also get free two-day shipping) ... finger hovering over the "1-Click" button ... I could have it here by Friday.  8O

Argh! What to do? I do love me some deathdrap dungeons ... but it's from The System That Won't Get Off My Lawn! I'm getting conflicting data here!

Ah, hell with it! Ordered.

Boo-yah!  :)


Good, Duke, I know you love you some old-school.  Let us know what you think, hopefully I'm not fully exposed out on a limb here in la-la land.  If you don't think it sucks I may be onto something; if the entire thing spray paints graffiti on your garage and giggles all the way to the cyber-gaming hut then I'm lost for sure..... 8O

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:43 am 
 

Badmike wrote:BTW, a cursory glance through H1 and H2....bleh.  Not so much old school as H3.  It will remain to be seen if H3 is a trend, or an abberation.  H1 Keep on the Shadowfell tries mightily to channel the classic B2 Keep on the Borderlands, but fails IMO; H2 Thunderspire Labyrinth is a game attempt to replicate an underdark type adventure, complete with old-school norkers (and Duergar and other baddies), but seems a bit samey to me despite a few good encounters.


The general consensus that I've seen on H1 is pretty much what you've got: neither good nor bad, but just really mediocre.

I know I heard good things about the final section of H2, but not certain how much of it is meant to be a showcase for some of the new rules.  (I've only read H1, so I'm just going by hearsay here.)


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:20 am 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:Good price at Amazon (where I also get free two-day shipping) ... finger hovering over the "1-Click" button ... I could have it here by Friday.  8O

Argh! What to do? I do love me some deathdrap dungeons ... but it's from The System That Won't Get Off My Lawn! I'm getting conflicting data here!

Ah, hell with it! Ordered.

Boo-yah!  :)


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:36 am 
 

Badmike wrote:Hopefully they will keep this mindset through other 4E adventures, if so I'm going to cautiously look for them.

Mike B.


Hopefully this bodes well for the 4E version of "Kingdom of the Ghouls" from Dungeon #70 that is scheduled to be released in June 2009.  Of the few Dungeon adventures that deserve the full treatment, this one is at the top of my list.


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:26 am 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:
Hopefully this bodes well for the 4E version of "Kingdom of the Ghouls" from Dungeon #70 that is scheduled to be released in June 2009.  Of the few Dungeon adventures that deserve the full treatment, this one is at the top of my list.


You told me this, King, and now that I've seen H3 I'm not quite as worried.  If nothing else, it will supply some cool maps that Dungeon magazine wasn't able to (love to see a poster sized map of the Underdark and  layout of the city of ghouls!)

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:18 am 
 

red_bus wrote:Don't forget to follow up with a review. Even if you only need two words...

Amazon says it will be here Friday, so I'm hoping to do some weekend reading. Actually, I sometimes get my Amazon stuff a day early, as they have a huge shipping center about an hour east of where I'm sitting right now.

Either way, I'll post something ...  :)

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