For those who have been following along with the two 4th Edition posts (and a special thanks to Deadlord, Killjoy, and Badmike for the inspiration)...


So I instituted the 6 second combat rule.  What followed over two sessions was a rollercoaster ride of...well...you be the judge...


First reactions at the table - (in no particular order from the three most vocal members of our group)

What the "frack"?!?!

Is this tied to the mechanic in some fashion I missed in the PHB?

You know, (Players name who is running the Dwarf cleric) is gonna "frack" that up every round!  We are doomed.


Non Roleplay related conversation regarding the new rule during the first session -

Ok its not in the PHB cause I checked, so is it like an optional rule in the new DMG?

What!!  My dwarf has like a 6 Int, what did you expect, brilliant time management skills?  Maybe I can find and train that feat next to up my bonus for you whiners! (grabs the PHB and starts flipping pages)

Is there gonna be some kind of experience reward for staying in the time limit through the adventure?

I think characters with higher INT scores should get more time to accomodate for their quick thinking abilities, you know, cause we all cant mimic our PC's and be the brilliant role player (Dwarven players name) is.


Gameplay related conversation affected by the rule -

(At the end of his turn the mage shouted to the cleric) Dont think about it, just get over here and heal me rocks for brains!

(warrior speaking real fast and already rolling to hit and damage dice) I move to flank, cleave, wash down a heal potion, and throw a glance to check out how Ran is doing with the shamman.  (quick pause then whispers) How many seconds I got left?

Considering the pit is close, I keep note of where it is footing wise and if this ugly "fracker" tries anything funny like a bull rush Im taking it with me instead of resisting.  Im sure he will make for a nice cushioned fall.  (the warrior grins wickededly then thinks for a sec and shouts out real fast) I attack too, fast, now!  Ahh dam it did that take my six seconds?


So I did smile evily at that last question, though I ruled he had time left and that just giving me an indication of what he wanted to do outside of the hit/miss part of combat didnt count.  In the end, the kinks began to work themselves out.  The players went from "Oh holy "frack" its the house rule from hell" to "Hey, this really livens things up".  They began to see the rule not as a hard and fast thing, but rather a time constraint meant to speed up play and enhance the fast feel of combat.  Even the Dwarven Cleric with his oh so horrible 6 INT roll really had some of the flavor come out in play and his real life persona of being indecisive, transmitted brilliantly into his PC which lead to some good combat roleplay/gameplay.

The second session saw the rule go through a rule lawyer hurdle ("Ok I checked the DMG and its not there either, what ding dong gave you the 6 second idea?") and a gameplay hurdle (Rogue player - "Hey, that Kobold definately took more than 6 seconds!" followed by my "Thats a 3 second penalty to your next 6 seconds for arguing about the rules with the DM during combat," ending with our normaly shy female paladin say while laughing at the rogue "Well that will learn ya.")


So, tomorrow night I would bet the third session sees most of the bumps evened out and players used to the idea that they dont have all the time in the world to strategize.  In fact its already sparked some great inter-party conversations in game about what they will do in combat, while sitting around the evening campfire.  Something I have never seen happen before.

So again, a thanks to those three who got the 6 second rule rolling.  Many happy gaming sessions to you and yours  /salute

MM

The 6 Seconds Rule is an option, but it IS listed in both the DMG and the PHB.
In other AD&D supplements as well.
Time is a vital part of every aspect of the game of AD&D.
Time is built into almost every aspect of AD&D, and most especially in battle.
(I cannot speak to 3x or the new 4th Editions, but I suspect time is a major concern in those editions as well)

1 Segment = 6 seconds.

10 Segments = 1 Turn. (Revised below as ROUND)... (1 minute)

Every spell has a casting time (And many of them also have durations) listed in the description in the PHB (Magic Missile CT = 1; with the 1 being 1 Segment).

Every weapon has a speed factor which is listed in segments.
The bigger or the more cumbersome any weapon is, the longer it takes to use in combat.
A dagger is one of the fastest, and a Heavy Crossbow is one of the slowest (Loading time is LONG).
Even Monks in hand to hand combat have specific times for specific moves.

When you roll for initiative you use casting time, movement rates and/or weapon speed to help determine initiative.
OK, perhaps not, but all those things are OPTIONS..........
Some folks simply roll and the lowest roll gets to act first.
That is also an option.

Using real world time constraints simply makes it all seem more realistic.
Not to mention that it tends to move the game along much faster.

In an actual battle, A fighter is not all that likely to tell the goblin hoards he is fighting to hold off for a minute or two, while he turns his back and argues with the cleric for 2 minutes in the middle of a battle to get him/her to cast a bless for the group, or cure light wounds on the mage......

In my game last weekend (Grandson and his cousin playing) I counted down from 10 (They are just kids, so I gave them more time) on several occasions, but only when the action bogged down with them having long discussions about what to do and who would do it.

I said one time:
"OK guys; The Goblins are standing in front of you with bored expressions on the thier ugly mugs......... arms crossed, eyes rolling   , and feet tapping on the hard packed dungeon floor."

Ten... Nine.... eight..... seven......  

They got the idea ..........

well as i run my games with very loose rules, as i just want it to flow, i take each circumstance as it arises.

using your fighter instance. i would have asked what the fighters intelligance was. if he was stupid, he prb wouldnt have even considered the pit, when the creature was rushing him.

if they converse together, the people conversing i just step over and carry on. they quickly stop that and get to grips with things. if the DM is asked specifics, i dont count that in the same thing.

as i said, the "rule" is just meant to make combat work more real-time, but i do use it in other circumstances too. just depends what it is.

i just think anything like that, that can make the game more interesting, it should be used.

with regards to anny's point: noted. i know the PHB and DMG say these things, but in the end, it comes down to working things out again etc. i just use common sense. if someone is using a T-H-Sword and a goblin is using a short sword, i will give the goblin +2 to hit, instead of arsing around with other things. same goes the other way. its all about being fair and realistic.

Al

killjoy32 wrote:....using your fighter instance. i would have asked what the fighters intelligance was. if he was stupid, he prb wouldnt have even considered the pit, when the creature was rushing him....

Thats been a long standing argument between many a DM and player in a number of games I have run or watched from OD&D to 2nd.  3.5 attempted to even the stat dumps out but instead just ended up creating the all important INT stat must have.  Not for roleplay value but for its gameplay value.  Even then there were still dumps that were obvious except for a specific few classes.  4th tries to balance the equation out further by seperating stats into sets of two so no one stat becomes all important, and all stats have an effect across the board.  Unfortunately CON becomes a kind of must have because of Healing surges (a gripe I have currently).

The one thing I am eternally grateful for with my players is they all do an excellent job of either roleplaying any stat variable very well, or they use rolls that are real world appropriate (our current Dwarf cleric knows hes not the most brilliant mind and is at times indecisive...so he never plays a character above 10 INT).  That takes a huge burden off my shoulders.

MM

but then if he had 18 dex, i would have said (if the rush was successful), that he has been pushed into the pit WITH the creature, but by pure chance, he has been able to grab the edge of the pit before going right in. if he could roll a normal hit, then he has succeeded on holding on, for 1-3 rounds. after that, unless helped, he would fall in (assuming the character is encumbered, which they normally are)

Al

Deadlord39 wrote:The 6 second rule was not part of D&D, Annie, I initiated that on my own. I think what you are referring to is the 6 second ROUND, used in combat, so that 6 seconds of game time equals 1 round.

See page 61 of the AD&D DMG Under COMBAT:
for time/round/combat/initiative/suprise.

Umn... perhaps D&D, but in AD&D A SEGMENT is listed as being 6 SECONDS and being only a small portion of a full COMBAT ROUND.
So, no a round is NOT 6 seconds, unless you have made it so in your home game.

A segment is part of a combat round, which is specified as being ONE MINUTE per combat round.

The DMG DOES allow for redoing time and making rounds of varying time frames (Including a few seconds) per house rules.

BTW: I agree with the one minute combat round statement.
There is simply way too much stuff going on during a battle for a round to be only 6 seconds long.
Parries, swipes, multiple swings for higher level fighters, etc....

Page 39 of the AD&D PHB lists time in increments as follows:
1 Turn = 10 minutes
10 (Melee) Rounds = 1 Turn
1 (Melee) Round = 1 minute
10 Segments = 1 round

BTW: I also realise there is a difference between real time and game time.
And I agree that real time should be limited for experienced players at the least in some instances, or game time could easily grind to a halt.

For new, young, or inxperienced players, forced or timed actions should be VERY limited.

However, such things are also quite useful in instilling fast thinking for the young folks too.

Double post....... I guess that was 2 rounds.

i always took 1 round to be 1 minute and i didnt ever read that rule

i always took the attack to be a set of manouvers that you make and one gets through, which is your attack.

if a character was non-combatitive, i would judge on whatever it is that they wanted to do, whether i would allow it done in the same round or flow over into the next etc.

Al