They just don't get it, do they? • Collecting General • The Acaeum

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They just don't get it, do they?
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Badmike
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:00 am

On my return from Gencon, sauntered into the local game/comic store to brag a bit about my trip. Everyone was furious and up in arms about the switch to 4th edition. Lot's of really angry words, declarations of "never buying from WOTC again", vague threats of not carrying anymore of their material, etc. These guys are hard core 3/3.5 players that routinely mock myself and anyone who would think about playing anything but.....they have gone as far to say that anyone gaming anything but 3/3.5 is an idiot and has not one iota of gaming intelligence, since 3/3.5 is obviously FAR superior to any other edition of the game. The owner won't even carry any Castles and Crusades, his explanation being he won't support a system that is basically "3rd edition light" instead of the one true game, D&D 3/3.5.

So, suffice to say, their red faced fury was as pleasure to watch, as they were reacting much the same as many others who got the rug pulled out from under them at the advent of 3/3.5 as they realized there would be no support for their favorite system of either 1st or 2nd edition. When I pointed this out, looks of puzzlement abounded on the employees faces.

"There is no comparison! AD&D was a DEAD game when WOTC took it over, they SHOULD have cancelled it because it was crap!!! It's not the same! 3/3.5 has NOTHING WRONG WITH IT that it deserves to be replaced by 4th edition! This is a PURE MONEY GRAB on the part of WOTC to make us buy ALL BRAND NEW BOOKS for a TOTALLY BRAND NEW GAME! There's no logical reason they can't keep producing 3.5 material! Waaaaaaaah!"

They just don't get it, do they?

The next year or so is going to be PURE UNADULTERATED PLEASURE as I plan to bring up the upcoming switchover every single time I walk in.

Mike B.

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beasterbrook
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:28 am

Does anyone have a timeline for the years each edition ran for?

Brette:)

(on the plus side I should be able to picj up some 3rd ed stuff for next to nothing)

Badmike
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:44 am

beasterbrook wrote:Does anyone have a timeline for the years each edition ran for?

Brette:)

(on the plus side I should be able to picj up some 3rd ed stuff for next to nothing)

OD&D: 1974-1978 (they were still printing booklets in '79, so someone was buying/playing them, and all the AD&D books were not yet released, making the cutoff date not as apparant as the other editions)

AD&D: 1978-1989 (Release of 1st ed PHB to release of 2nd ed PHB)

Yes the Monster Manual appeared in late 1977, but realistically you couldn't actually play AD&D until the PHB was released in 1978 (and you didn't even have all the rules until the summer of 1979 and the release of the DMG!)

2nd Ed: 1989-2000

A lot of people forget that Forgotten Realms boxed set was released in the summer of 1987, and was actually 1st edition, as well as many of the beginning sourcebooks.

3rd/3.5: 2000-2008

Summer of 2000 through next summer.......

Mike B.

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"The Acaeum hates fun" Sir Allen
"I had a collecting emergency" Nogrod
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Improv
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:39 am

Sounds to me like there will be a market for 4ed modules converted to 3/3.5ed.

Hey I just noticed the number 4 on my keyboard is the same key for the $ sign. WotC was definitely seeing $$$ when they developed 4ed. :lol:

"... and may I remind you that this ain't the end. I can still kick some ass." - Tom Petty

flying_purple_monkfish
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:50 am

4th ed fills me with dread, but I will always prefer AD&D.. why? because it had better settings damnit. 3.5 is all hack slash kill, AD&D actually allowed for some roleplay.. because damnit, things could and would kill you good!

Heh, the system isn't brilliant but neither is D20 in general really. I don't mind it, i'd rather have a better setting than a perfect simplistic system.

yay for riling up the hard core fans! huzzah! I'd do that, heh. Unfortunately, our local games shop is trying to get out of gaming all together so don't have an oppinion either way. How sad.

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killjoy32
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:41 am

flying_purple_monkfish wrote:4th ed fills me with dread, but I will always prefer AD&D.. why? because it had better settings damnit. 3.5 is all hack slash kill, AD&D actually allowed for some roleplay.. because damnit, things could and would kill you good!

Heh, the system isn't brilliant but neither is D20 in general really. I don't mind it, i'd rather have a better setting than a perfect simplistic system.

yay for riling up the hard core fans! huzzah! I'd do that, heh. Unfortunately, our local games shop is trying to get out of gaming all together so don't have an oppinion either way. How sad.

any system allows roleplay. its down to the DM and the players to do that. whatever edition of the game you follow, its just a guide, simple as that. its the game between the group thats more important.

Al

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Improv
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:05 am

killjoy32 wrote:
any system allows roleplay. its down to the DM and the players to do that. whatever edition of the game you follow, its just a guide, simple as that. its the game between the group thats more important.

Al

Very true. No matter what version of the D&D you play the rules are just a guide. Even EGG used house rules to suit. I would hate to have to spendmost of the game time sifting through rules rather than enjoying the adventure.

"... and may I remind you that this ain't the end. I can still kick some ass." - Tom Petty

Agent Cooper
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:23 am

BADMIKE-
Sounds like those guys at the gamestore are real jerks. "The one true game"...geesh, give me a break. :roll:

And as for the hue and cry about money grabbing etc, this seems to happen whenever a new edition of any game comes out. The whining is still ringing in my ears from when 3.0 was replaced with 3.5. I can't figure out why everybody gets so upset, especially RPG players. I mean, if you don't like the new edition, then for heaven's sake, don't buy it! As long as you have the old books, you can keep on playing 3.5 (or 3, or 2 or 1 or Basic or whatever) till you draw your last breath.

On a side note, I really have to check out this Castles and Crusades everybody keeps mentioning. I keep hearing it's alot like AD&D. We're using 3.5 right now, and we're happy enough with it, but I'm attracted to this "3rd edition lite" idea. Although sounds like they're easing back on the rules in 4th edition anyway.

deimos3428
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:36 am

improvstone wrote:Very true. No matter what version of the D&D you play the rules are just a guide. Even EGG used house rules to suit. I would hate to have to spendmost of the game time sifting through rules rather than enjoying the adventure.

I daresay most Acaeum-types could take 3.0/3.5 and turn it into something good. Why they'd go to the trouble, I'm not sure...it certainly seems like 1E is easier to play, so why switch at considerable expense?

g026r
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:37 am

Agent Cooper wrote:I mean, if you don't like the new edition, then for heaven's sake, don't buy it! As long as you have the old books, you can keep on playing 3.5 (or 3, or 2 or 1 or Basic or whatever) till you draw your last breath.

And thanks to eBay, you don't even need to currently have the old books. :wink:

deimos3428
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:37 am

Agent Cooper wrote:On a side note, I really have to check out this Castles and Crusades everybody keeps mentioning. I keep hearing it's alot like AD&D. We're using 3.5 right now, and we're happy enough with it, but I'm attracted to this "3rd edition lite" idea. Although sounds like they're easing back on the rules in 4th edition anyway.

Were I to start playing today, I'd be playing C&C, (and/or Lejendary Adventures). 4E won't even be an RPG, as far as I can tell.

killjoy32
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:28 am

deimos3428 wrote:I daresay most Acaeum-types could take 3.0/3.5 and turn it into something good. Why they'd go to the trouble, I'm not sure...it certainly seems like 1E is easier to play, so why switch at considerable expense?

well i hate wasting valuable game time on rules or guides or whatever. simpler the better so the game flow can be kept and the game enjoyed more by everyone. ask the guys how often i referred to rules or we even discussed it.... i would say prb not once at all....anything that happened i kinda made something up that felt fair and the flow was nice and quick and good fun for all.

thats really how it should be for any system no matter what version or whatever.

its the way i have always played the game and will continue to do so. i dont think i could play any other way.

Al

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killjoy32
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:31 am

the other thing as well was that all week before we played at GenCon, i panicked about the fact that i was gonna DM like acaeum hard-core D&D gamers and what would they think blah blah.....i really did panic, but in the end it didnt matter.

i think also with respect also to later versions of the game that say, Blackmoor plays (3.5 iirc?)...i would prb enjoy the game because they are quite knowledgable about what they use, good games and good folk to boot, so the game would prb still be very enjoyable, despite not really liking the system.

again i say its all down to who you game with.

Al

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copycat
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:49 am

On a side note, I really have to check out this Castles and Crusades everybody keeps mentioning.

Yes. Yes, you do.

[/end self-plug.]

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Agent Cooper
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:53 am

What killjoy said.

It's really who you game with. My group is using the newer editions, but I like to think (or hope very much) that our campaigns are very different than the ones those hosers run at that shop Badmike was referring to.

Too bad Killjoy isn't running an AD&D game in my neighborhood. From reading the after action reports here, I'd jump for a place at the table.

Badmike
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:01 am

Agent Cooper wrote:What killjoy said.

It's really who you game with. My group is using the newer editions, but I like to think (or hope very much) that our campaigns are very different than the ones those hosers run at that shop Badmike was referring to.

Too bad Killjoy isn't running an AD&D game in my neighborhood. From reading the after action reports here, I'd jump for a place at the table.

Hey I told the guys the same thing.."You have more 3rd edition modules and games and settings that you could ever play in a lifetime, who cares about 4th edition?" I feel that way about the game I play in which basically I can use anything published 1999 backwards, and I can even convert a 3rd adventure if I truly wanted. I think they were pissed about the fact that A. None of their 3.5 stuff is goiing to sell for the next 10 months because no one will care about the old systems, and B. How much merchandise will actually be available to be sold brick and mortar (they already had Dragon and Dungeon taken away, which sold quite well there) and how much online which cuts them out of the profit.

It will be interesting to see how brick and mortar dealers fall on this question once more details are released. My FLGS has already stated they will start carrying more non WOTC rpgs like Call of Cthulhu, Warhammer, etc, and pushing them to customers with the thought that they won't be affected by the changeover.

Mike B.

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"The Acaeum hates fun" Sir Allen
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sauromatian
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:01 am

Badmike wrote:OD&D: 1974-1978 (they were still printing booklets in '79, so someone was buying/playing them, and all the AD&D books were not yet released, making the cutoff date not as apparant as the other editions)

In the early 80s, OD&D was marketed as being the open-ended version of the game, & continued to appear in catalogs until the late 80s. Similarly, 1st ed AD&D hardbacks continued to be printed for a couple of years after 2nd ed.

killjoy32
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:02 am

Agent Cooper wrote:What killjoy said.

It's really who you game with. My group is using the newer editions, but I like to think (or hope very much) that our campaigns are very different than the ones those hosers run at that shop Badmike was referring to.

Too bad Killjoy isn't running an AD&D game in my neighborhood. From reading the after action reports here, I'd jump for a place at the table.

well i keep adding to my list of "things i want to do"... i have allsorts on it, such as:

go to the north pole

do the mongol rally

everest base camp (next year)

complete the MDS again (next year)

australia (this year)

and now.....go and have a week at badmikes so we can have a gaming weekend

its gonna happen and ppl know i dont mince my words

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