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DRAGON and DUNGEON Now Online Magazines
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Poll: Will Dragon and Dungeon be viable as online magazines?

No....quality will suffer and no one will read as much 77%       77%  [ 17 ]
YES! Now I get my Dungeon and Dragon content online! 23%       23%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 22

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Post Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:18 pm 
 

It's true....WoTC got Dragon and Dungeon back to become online magazines.

Hmmmm...

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/news/20070803a


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:35 pm 
 

Where's the don't care option?

Just reading the guidelines made me ill. 5000 words. That ain't much when you consider 4500 of its a single statblock.


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:38 pm 
 

Here's my favorite line in the submission guidelines:

4. Independent Development
Author acknowledges that the Work may be similar to the theme, plot, idea, format, or other element of material that Wizards has independently developed or that has or may come to Wizards from other sources. Author shall not be entitled to any compensation by reason of the use by Wizards of such similar material, whether developed or acquired by Wizards before or after Author's submission of the Work.


In other words, send us your best idea. If we like it, we'll make it a WoTC project and assign it to one of OUR writers and pay you nothing. Thanks!


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:21 pm 
 

I had a wee glance at a few of the threads on their message boards (pages and pages of stuff there  8O ), and it looks like at Gencon there will be an announcement with some information on WOTCs big Digital Initiative, with further information to come at some point after gencon...


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:06 am 
 

Center_Stage_Hobbies wrote:Here's my favorite line in the submission guidelines:
In other words, send us your best idea. If we like it, we'll make it a WoTC project and assign it to one of OUR writers and pay you nothing. Thanks!



Because fantasy adventures are so similar to each other...similar themes repeated over and over...TSR used to get accused all the time of taking other people's ideas.  Unsolicited manuscripts would cause them problems.

I understand that television shows often have the same problem with unsolicited manuscripts.

The submission guidelines are fairly standard in this regard.


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:41 am 
 

I figured that was just WoTC's insurance policy against that sort of thing. But the way that is stated, a very unscupulous editor could really make use of that...just my humble opinion.


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:11 pm 
 

I wish I could say that I was looking forward to this, but I have to say that I'm currently very skeptical.  One of the nice things about having the magazines was that I could take them to work, read them on my lunch break, or lounge in bed with a small stack to peruse.  Now it looks like I'll be sitting in front of my PC to read them just like I was flipping through my Dragon Magazine archive.

It's good that they aren't disappearing completely, but I'm sad that WotC has decided that the Internet is the place to go for this stuff.  Some of us still enjoy the feeling of holding something physical between two covers. *sigh*

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Post Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:42 pm 
 

Center_Stage_Hobbies wrote:I figured that was just WoTC's insurance policy against that sort of thing. But the way that is stated, a very unscupulous editor could really make use of that...just my humble opinion.


They get so many submissions mailed to them that they have no need to steal ideas.  When an idea is good enough or new enough they generally buy it.

It got to the point in TSR's history when they generally refused to accept unsolicited work from anyone.  They took proposals and gave work only to established freelancers.


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:48 pm 
 

What you say about the process of submitting and publishing with TSR is very interesting, seeing that you speak from experience.  I'd love to hear more about how you did it.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:03 pm 
 

stumbling tiger wrote:What you say about the process of submitting and publishing with TSR is very interesting, seeing that you speak from experience.  I'd love to hear more about how you did it.


I submitted a goofy, unprofessional query letter outlining my idea.

I also sent them a copy of my unsolicited manuscript...which wasn't overwhelmingly large and which I did not expect to be returned.

Given my current knowledge of collecting, I most certainly would have sent a stamped, self-addressed envelope in order to get my manuscript back...but I did not consider it important at the time.  

It was shortly after that time that TSR began refusing unsolicited work.  They were more flexible about the magazines, but they would not accept unsolicited module proposals because of the inevitable suspicions and accusations of intellectual theft.

There were other ideas that got rejected and one I should have acted on and didn't.  (A Warhammer 40,000 points system.)

After I had been printed in Dungeon, I asked for and got some other freelance editing work...which was fun and challenging and exasperating.  Most of the exasperation was due to technological difficulties.  

It seems hard to imagine now, but most of the bugs in shared files and electronic information have been worked out in the last 15 or so years.  Before that time there were a multitude of operating systems and word processing programs...and some could not talk to each other.  Some programs would not run on some computers and there were sharp differences between the operating systems of different generations of computers made only a year or so apart.

For instance...many British computer users had Amstrad computers, which had their own word processing program called Professional Writer.  TSR used Word Perfect 5.1.  Professional Writer files could be translated by Word Perfect using brute force.  Word Perfect files could be translated for Professional Writer if a translation mode on Word Perfect were first used to garble the file into ASCI and then Professional writer could garble it again and read it.  The result was a mess that had to be painstakingly edited and re-formatted.  (As I recall, Carl Sargent and Doug Niles used Amstrad...but don't quote me on that.)

In another instance, TSR kept sending me disks with files supposedly on them...but the files were not actually there.  They kept copying and mailing the same disk to me as deadlines loomed until I finally got them to understand the problem.  Snail mail was the only delivery system, so each reincarnation of the bad disk took a minimum of a week to sort out...and usually two weeks.  I was also a tech neophyte, so all the exasperations weren't TSR's fault.

While I am babbling, one other technical problem that TSR had was that their original files for Dragon magazine were saved on huge floppy disks (larger than the 5" floppies that many computers used).  When the computer that could read those disks failed it greatly complicated efforts to do things like reprint back issues of Dragon.  (The concept of a "hard drive" that stored files was unknown for the first decade of the computer era.)  That might seem incredible today, but back then it was possible for an entire style of computer to disappear and strand all files related to that brand name or operating system.  That is what happened to Compaq computer users as well as early Apple users and many other failed contenders.

There were also problems with copyright issues on old magazine articles, as well as questions about who owned the text of a module.  That is why TSR adopted the policy of purchasing all rights to published material as "work for hire," which gave future rights to TSR.  Another reason for this policy was to protect TSR's overall ownership and control of Dungeons and Dragons material.  (So, if you have questions about who owns what from back in the day, the answer on almost all TSR material will be that TSR and WOTC still own the rights.)

One exception to this work for hire rule policy was artwork.  TSR purchased first printing rights to things like the paintings that graced Dragon's cover, so the artists retained ownership of their work.  (TSR wouldn't have been able to get professional paintings if they had demanded ownership)  I don't know about interior art but I suspect that most of the drawings that illustrated magazines and modules were produced in-house by employee artists...and thus belong to TSR.  

I don't recall the policy about published fiction.  The terms might have been more standard publishing terms in which the writer retained rights subject to contract provisions.

That was probably more information than you wanted.

I should have done more work.  Hindsight...20/20 and all that.

Mark  8)


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:44 am 
 

Boy, am I glad I never tried to submit then. I didn't have a PC to use, and when I did, the 2d8 was just getting popular and I was still LOAD "*" ,8,1 on my C64...


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:17 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:One exception to this work for hire rule policy was artwork.  TSR purchased first printing rights to things like the paintings that graced Dragon's cover, so the artists retained ownership of their work.  (TSR wouldn't have been able to get professional paintings if they had demanded ownership)


Which would explain why I have seen Dragon cover art used for the covers of GURPS books.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:10 pm 
 

Good write-up, Mark -- I'd wondered about the behind-the-scenes stuff from that time period.  I think I sent something off to them in my early teen years, and wondered why I didn't get a better response than the two-line form letter that eventually arrived.

The following bit gave me a chuckle, though:

FormCritic wrote:I also sent them a copy of my unsolicited manuscript...which wasn't overwhelmingly large and which I did not expect to be returned.

It was shortly after that time that TSR began refusing unsolicited work.  


Unintended humor, I'm sure.  :)

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:38 pm 
 

FoulFoot wrote:Good write-up, Mark -- I'd wondered about the behind-the-scenes stuff from that time period.  I think I sent something off to them in my early teen years, and wondered why I didn't get a better response than the two-line form letter that eventually arrived.

The following bit gave me a chuckle, though:

FormCritic wrote:I also sent them a copy of my unsolicited manuscript...which wasn't overwhelmingly large and which I did not expect to be returned.

It was shortly after that time that TSR began refusing unsolicited work.  


Unintended humor, I'm sure.  :)

Foul


Or perhaps Mark just never got the hint.....

:P


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:20 pm 
 

I was told...second-hand...that part of the delay between Village of Hommlet and Temple of Elemental Evil was caused by a lawsuit over similar ideas in a module proposal.

According to my second-hand story-teller, TSR had rejected a young author's proposal and had been sued when they subsequently printed a very similar module idea.

To the author, it seemed clear that TSR had stolen his idea...when the truth was that there are only so many fantasy storylines and the similarity was a coincidence.

According to the story I heard, Temple of Elelmental Evil was almost completed when another game company printed a very similar idea.  TSR had to re-work Temple of Elemental Evil in order to make it different enough from their competitor's product to avoid yet another lawsuit hassle.

Supposedly (I rate the source as 60% because he might have just got the info wrong) this is why where was such a long delay between T1 and T2 that only true fans could remember that they were related.

My source was a game store guy who had been to a convention as a dealer and heard the story from TSR personnel who were also working the con.  

One thing that had interested my source about the TSR personnel was that he had expected business people but had instead met bearded dudes in stained white T-shirts.

Apparently, it was early enough in gaming history that the T-shirts were not yet gamer-uniform black.

When I went to GenCon 2000, in Milwaukee, my partners and I were driving a van through the downtown looking for the MECCA site.  

"Turn right," I said. "It has to be right over there."

"How do you know?" asked everyone else. (I was the only active gamer!)

"Because I just saw a line of about twenty big guys in black T-shirts all walking that way.  Those had to be gamers."

I was right.


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