I have been trying to find out the difference between, say, an 8.5 "white pages" vs an 8.5 "grade a sealed". I would assume there would be a price difference - but the same number grade confuses me a bit.

Of course, I dont know CGC things that well, having never really been into comics.

Can anyone fluent in comics talk a little about shrink wrapped items - though I do know most comics never were.

Tszii wrote in CGC Slabs: SW vs White Pages:The Sealed grade means they shrink wrap is original. The grade on sealed is grading what they can see. Corner dings, creases etc can still happen through shrink. A grade with white pages means its an opened item. Clearly, the overwhelming majority are opened and you can see if the paged are white, if the staples are rusted, etc...I would say there is a debate about sealed and higher grade items, but these have only been graded for a couple of years and there isnt a ton of attention to graded modules yet. :)

Shrink doesn't improve the condition of an item in these grades. But they are only grading (in these cases) what they can see, and obviously, they cannot see the interior. While I would say in 90% of the cases you are good, there is aa possibility of interior dampness causing rusted staples (in most cases, yo can discern this with a thorough examination, and in most of these cases there is some warping to give a clue).
The price cachet for SW is typically because the item is assumed to be "pristine" in the interior. While you can correctly say "never played or used", I would never say "interior is pristine" because of the possibility of dampness.
The grade for the SW is just that, a subjective look at how much of the SW is still attached, torn, tight, etc. Any SW item marked with "white pages" is a guess only, once again the determination of the pages cannot be certain without examination, but again in 90% or more of the cases a SW item is going to have unmarked, white pages when/if it's ever removed from the shrink.
Again, be aware if you are collecting slabbed items that are in SW, they are only grading what they can see on the exterior. SW items were in the past typically removed from their SW before grading, but the cachet for SW items (and price jump) is so great that both companies now allow SW items to be encased (CBCS always did, CGC just joined them).

Mike B.

Chris Korczak wrote in CGC Slabs: SW vs White Pages:Thanks, Mike - so I guess that you are confirming that a SW 8.5 would sell for more than a non SW 8.5.

Appreciate the response!

C

My research has shown this is indeed true. But honestly, the non-SW items look better in the slabs (IMO). YMMV!

Mike B.

Philflound wrote in CGC Slabs: SW vs White Pages:We just got in a ton of shrinkwrapped items today. In fact I spent my entire day working on them and didn't finish.

Overall the interior does not matter much unless there are stains, missing parts or detachment. Light rust won't drop a grade much. So if a book has some rust on the staples, this most likely will not affect the grade if it's an 8.5 already. This goes for comics too.

Sometimes you can see staining if there is warping not caused by the shrinkwrap. That warping is pretty much ignored. Yes, we go with corner wear, creases and spine stresses unless something else is very apparent. We have still not graded many of the released material. So far we had to build about 8 items of the 70 I've done. But we also got some Judges Guild pieces I haven't gotten to which I believe will all be new.

Phil

Phil,  Just curious why would warping "caused by shrink" be ignored?  Seems that it would be a flaw and pretty subjective.  I ask because when buying SW items a warp would be a no go for me.

Thanks!

Tom aka DiscoDadda

What boggles my mind is when grading a shrinkwrapped module why the graders don't employ the simple tool that stares them in the face at so many turns... Heck imagine the labor reduction if you trained and employed a team of Sea-Monkeys armed with X-ray specs...

Philflound wrote in CGC Slabs: SW vs White Pages:It's very easy to judge and think you're better than professionals trained in this. I have not been on here in a few months, so this is a bit late in responding.

If shrinkwrap is removed, the item can easily be pressed and warping will no longer be an issue. It's also possible it doesn't need a press. If there is warping from water/liquid damage, that is another story.

As for rusty staples, you have to look at the overall product. Staples are a minute portion of a comic book, magazine or in this case module. If staples have a little rust, think about what that's saying. You have a stain about maybe 2% of the entire item. Unless the staple is heavily rusted or even disintegrated, the grade doesn't drop much. Also, with modules, you don't see it from the outside, and any rust stains will usually be on the interior cover and pages. Again, unless it is severely rusted.

If you think you can grade, feel free to submit an application to the company. There are always critics who think they can do the job. Since working at CGC, I've graded a good 250k+ comics and magazines. I've also been buying and selling comic books since 1984, owned my own retail store for 4 years in the 1990s, worked as regional manager for another group of stores 4 years after that and spent a good time selling on Ebay until 2016 when I finally went to CGC. The guy who finalizes the D&D items has been grading for 18 years with the company. So don't judge unless you know what you're judging.

Phil

Well Phil you are going to open up a can o' worms with this one

I was going to just let your comments go on by Phil. But not after you write that I was trolling you. It seems that you don't know whom I am. My name is Bill Meinhardt. I have the largest FRP collection in the world. By number of different items. By number of rare items. By number of unique items. I have hundreds of unique items. I have 20 Brown Boxes. I have 30 White Boxes. I have 9 Ghost Tower of Inverness (including two Author copies). I have 6 Lost Tamoachan (including both Author copies). I have 1 of the two author copies of Up the Garden Path. I have hundreds of Convention adventures. I have hundreds of original manuscripts. I have almost 16,000 different items in my collection. I could go on and on. I've been going to GenCon since 1978. For about 30 years if there was something rare at GenCon, I was winning it. Even in the last 15 years there have only been about 10 things that I didn't win where I really wanted it. I'm the person at Gary Con who grades all of the items for the auction. I do the same thing at Gamehole Con. I do the same thing at North Texas RPG Con. I do the same thing for all of the high-end items at GenCon. Why do these cons want me doing this? Because no one, no one knows these products better than I do and is a more trusted grader of these products. I have forgotten more about these products than you will ever know. When you wrote that excessive staple rust only effects 2% of a page and shouldn't really be much damage to a grade, that's something a child would write. No real collector wants stains on their items and significant staple rust should be at least a full grade subtraction from an item. I have been on the Acaeum for 20 years trying to educate and help my fellow gamers and collectors. You are here to try and convince them to get things slabbed. You have a vested interest in getting people to get things slabbed even when they are in shrinkwrap. So you can hand wave away concerns about internal unseen damage because you have an agenda. I do not. I am not selling my items. I have a museum. I've been adding to it for 46 years. Personally I don't care about items being slabbed. I do think the concept of overpaying for slabbed items in shrinkwrap when ultimately one does not know about the interior condition is strange. It seems to me it means we do not yet have a fully knowledgeable group of collectors who are willing to overpay for the illusion of quality. So be it.

Well met Bill. It seemed like you were trolling. We get that a lot about CGC. I don't really have an agenda per se for myself. I get nothing extra out of providing information that my company now grades sealed product. The only benefit I get is to see some really cool and rare stuff come into the office. I just notified the collecting community that we were doing these now. I also answered any questions that may have been asked to the best of my ability. Collectors don't always know about grading. I've learned and continue to learn working at CGC. I personally do not submit D&D items to be slabbed short of the original small rulebooks that I posted on here. I thought it would be cool to get those graded and show what they look like in the case, since they are much smaller than a comic, magazine or RPG item. I've been getting comic books graded and just recently submitted some Atari games to the video game dept. I have thousands of items I'd like to get graded, but $$ prevent me from pursuing that. So I apologize for my tone and hope there are no hard feelings.
Phil

stratochamp wrote in CGC Slabs: SW vs White Pages: I have 20 Brown Boxes. I have 30 White Boxes. I have 9 Ghost Tower of Inverness (including two Author copies). I have 6 Lost Tamoachan (including both Author copies). I have 1 of the two author copies of Up the Garden Path. I have hundreds of Convention adventures. I have hundreds of original manuscripts.

He doesnt even mention a single B2 first print. What's this world coming to...