Ravens Bluff • Collecting General • The Acaeum

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Ravens Bluff
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dhunton
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Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:44 pm

Hey guys,

Just wondering if anyone has any of the old Ravens Bluff official TSR products that look they were done on a copy machine - I have "A Player's Guide to the LIVING CITY Campaign" and some character creation guidelines. I also have part of a Guide to the Meta-campaign Options.

Would love to chat (on or off list) with anyone who has some of these and wants to compare notes. Feel free to post or PM me.

Debbie

Mars
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Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:01 pm

I have a few of them. What are you wanting to know?

dhunton
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Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:46 pm

Trying to find out how many pages were in the Meta-Campaign Options book (i.e. I *might* have the entire thing, but I'm just not sure). Also, with two sets of Character Creation Guidelines and the Player's Guide, how close am I to being complete? I've been watching ebay and here for a number of months now, and haven't seen any.

Debbie

Mars
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Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:57 pm

These items only seem to show up once or twice every 5 years.

There are a 3 different versions of the Player's Guide to the Living City Campaign - I think I have versions 1 and 2.0. Version 1 has 37 numbered pages with the back of page 37 being a certificate page. There is also an official "RPGA Ravens Bluff The Living City AD&D Character Sheet" (double sided) that is listed on the index as being pages 39-40.

The other expansion is the Living City Campaign Procampur City Expansion Packet which is 12 pages.

I haven't had a chance to check out the colour poster map yet. It looks the same from the modules but I was wondering if the module one has a product number on it, etc.

dhunton
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:12 am

Mars wrote:I haven't had a chance to check out the colour poster map yet. It looks the same from the modules but I was wondering if the module one has a product number on it, etc.

The ones I have in my products don't have any numbers or copyrights on them at all. Well, with the exception of the one in The City of Ravens Bluff from 1998 - that one has info on it.

Debbie

Last edited by dhunton on Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

dhunton
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:14 am

Mars wrote:There are a 3 different versions of the Player's Guide to the Living City Campaign - I think I have versions 1 and 2.0. Version 1 has 37 numbered pages with the back of page 37 being a certificate page. There is also an official "RPGA Ravens Bluff The Living City AD&D Character Sheet" (double sided) that is listed on the index as being pages 39-40.

I think I have version 1. What's the difference with the other versions? Anything dramatic, or just minor edits?

Mars wrote:The other expansion is the Living City Campaign Procampur City Expansion Packet which is 12 pages.

Haven't seen this one. Cool, something else to look for! What does it include info on?

ashmire13
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:41 am

Doesnt your Ultimate guide cover this or are you just gleaning more free information for your next guide without crediting those who give the information to you?

Rolls a '3'

"Did I hit.....?"

dhunton
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:32 pm

ashmire13 wrote:Doesnt your Ultimate guide cover this or are you just gleaning more free information for your next guide without crediting those who give the information to you?

The Acaeum is credited in my books (in the bibliography, along with all my other online and print sources).

And I do not simply copy information. My books include a substantial amount of information on each product which is not listed on the Acaeum (some of which is actually not listed online ANYWHERE). My information is gathered from my personal collection and the collections of many people I have talked to online and in person. Anyone who provides me information from their personal collection is given credit.

Yes, I use online and print sources to check that I have not missed any products. Yes, I use online and print sources to gather information about printings which I do not personally own. But any good author/researcher does this.

Why are you so hostile? It's a serious question, as I really do not understand your stand on this. We are all D&D lovers and collectors here. I'm sorry if I've done anything to offend you.

I have not (and never will) tell people not to use online sources. I have never criticized the Acaeum, either online or in person. I have nothing but the highest regard for the Acaeum and its members, as well as other online communities.

I'm happy to move this discussion to another thread, or to PM, as it really doesn't belong with my question on Ravens Bluff items.

Debbie

JasonZavoda
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:56 pm

dhunton wrote:The Acaeum is credited in my books (in the bibliography, along with all my other online and print sources).

And I do not simply copy information. My books include a substantial amount of information on each product which is not listed on the Acaeum (some of which is actually not listed online ANYWHERE). My information is gathered from my personal collection and the collections of many people I have talked to online and in person. Anyone who provides me information from their personal collection is given credit.

Yes, I use online and print sources to check that I have not missed any products. Yes, I use online and print sources to gather information about printings which I do not personally own. But any good author/researcher does this.

Why are you so hostile? It's a serious question, as I really do not understand your stand on this. We are all D&D lovers and collectors here. I'm sorry if I've done anything to offend you.

I have not (and never will) tell people not to use online sources. I have never criticized the Acaeum, either online or in person. I have nothing but the highest regard for the Acaeum and its members, as well as other online communities.

I'm happy to move this discussion to another thread, or to PM, as it really doesn't belong with my question on Ravens Bluff items.

Debbie

Debbie,

In this round of your information harvesting you fail to mention that your research is for a publication you plan on selling. You have an unsavory reputation for exactly this type of research. This is why you are treated with a minimum of respect by some members of this site.

You show up here like a coyote looking for a meal and some people don't want you knocking over their waste cans or eating their cat. Here at the Acaeum we are quite careful with our waste cans and rather proud of our cat. Some members might put some food out for you, but others are certainly going to throw some shoes.

You could hang around and contribute to the community and ignore the shoes. Just ignore the shoes and see who will feed you. Just disturb our waste cans and eat the cat.

You say you have never eaten our cat before, but instead raised, printed and published your own. I think I will leave it to others to look through your waste can and ours to see if there are any fur and bones in common and you can consider this my shoe.

"You get more with a kind word and an excruciator than with just a kind word."

dhunton
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:11 pm

You make a valid point...about this particular thread. But I will add the comment that the reason I used this approach is that previous requests for information - up front and with full disclosure - were greated with hostility instead of generosity.

And I *have* contributed to the community. I sent more than one picture in (starting many years ago) when I found something that didn't match what was on the site. Whether they were ever used or not, I have no idea. Just because YOU are not aware of my contributions don't mean they weren't made.

Debbie

JasonZavoda
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:15 pm

dhunton wrote:You make a valid point...about this particular thread. But I will add the comment that the reason I used this approach is that previous requests for information - up front and with full disclosure - were greated with hostility instead of generosity.

And I *have* contributed to the community. I sent more than one picture in (starting many years ago) when I found something that didn't match what was on the site. Whether they were ever used or not, I have no idea. Just because YOU are not aware of my contributions don't mean they weren't made.

Debbie

I'm sure the danish was wonderful, but what have you done for us lately?

"You get more with a kind word and an excruciator than with just a kind word."

Kingofpain89
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:46 pm

JasonZavoda wrote:In this round of your information harvesting you fail to mention that your research is for a publication you plan on selling. You have an unsavory reputation for exactly this type of research. This is why you are treated with a minimum of respect by some members of this site.

I dont really see why she should have to disclose this information. If she uses information directly from The Acaeum and references such in the book, then its fair use. I dont really see that there is anything that can be done about it.

And it may just be me but it just seems like a lot of people are just pissed that they didnt do exactly what Debbie (and others) have already done.

You don't like your job, you don't strike. You go in every day and do it really half-assed. That's the American way. - Homer Simpson

benjoshua
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:03 pm

If it is any consolation or comfort to anyone who cares, the Acaeum has become a kinder and gentler community overall since I first started hanging around several years ago. But it's not for everybody by a long shot.

People are generally more welcomed if they have good command of the English language, don't look for a fight (troll), contribute to the community, and love collecting earlier editions of D&D stuff. Lacking, or the perception of lacking, in any of those areas can lead to pointed, snarky or hostile feedback. There's no exact formula for what sets some people off.

If you have to explain yourself, I wouldn't bother. In my opinion, it makes things worse. If you love collecting older D&D stuff, I haven't found a better informed community than this group. If you want to stick around, stay; if you don't, leave. We are who we are like everybody else. :? O.K. I am getting way too philosophical here. Sorry. 8)

Truth is worth finding and life is too short to work for money.

Mars
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:39 pm

dhunton wrote:I think I have version 1. What's the difference with the other versions? Anything dramatic, or just minor edits?

For the (LC5) Player's Guide to the Living City Campaign, there are 4 versions:

Version 1 is copyright February 1996
Version 1.1 March 1996???
Version 1.2 April 1996
Version 2.0 September 1996

(LC6) Procampur is copyright 1997.

If you have the Meta Campaign Options book, that is a different beast from the ones above. The Meta Campaign Options has been available in PDF so it is fairly easy to find:

http://rpgaweb.tripod.com/pdf/LCMeta_Book.pdf

The others are extremely rare and probably $100 each at the low end and much more at the high end (IMHO). They were only available and sent out to RPGA members and are "official items" released by the RPGA for a campaign in which other mainstream products were produced:

8908 LC1 Gateway to Ravens Bluff - initially an RPGA release then mass market
9282 LC2 Inside Ravens Bluff - initially an RPGA release then mass market?
9316 LC3 Nightwatch in the Living City
9315 LC4 Port of Ravens Bluff
(LC5) A Player's Guide to the Living City with full colour poster map
(LC6) Procampur
9575 LC7 The City of Ravens Bluff - unofficial code?
9590 LC8 Kidnapped! - unofficial code?

There was a set of Living City items that sold on Ebay a few months back - ended up going for around $280. I think there were only a few people noticed it.

Last edited by Mars on Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.

dhunton
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:47 pm

Mars wrote:For the (LC5) Player's Guide to the Living City Campaign, there are 3 versions:

Version 1 is copyright February 1996
Version 1.1 - not sure copyright
Version 2.0 April 1996 (I think - don't have my copy handy)

(LC6) Procampur is copyright 1997.

Actually, mine is copyright April 1996, Version 1.2, so I wonder if there was a version 2.0, or if everyone just thinks of it as the "second version" (which has happened more than once with TSR products).

As for the Procampur, would you be willing to send me a scan of the front cover (300 dpi or better), along with the appropriate details for me to include it in my collector's guide? You'd be listed in the credits and get a free copy of the volume if you do so. And if you aren't, I understand completely.

Thank you for your help.

Mars
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:57 pm

dhunton wrote:Actually, mine is copyright April 1996, Version 1.2, so I wonder if there was a version 2.0, or if everyone just thinks of it as the "second version" (which has happened more than once with TSR products).

Actually, Version 2.0 is September 1996. I have read on a couple places (including an old message here) that a version 1.1 exists (but I have never seen it) but I don't think I've ever heard of a version 1.2 so that is new to me. I actually grabbed the date from here:

http://www.candlekeep.com/bookshelf/products/pglcc.htm

thinking it was the 2.0 one. Now that I know its wrong, I had to go search for it in my archives - luckily it was only in the 3rd place I thought I would have put it :)

Mars
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:23 pm

Just confirmed that version 1.1 exists as well - will see if I can find out the copyright date. Fair guess is March 1996 :)

Invincible Overlord
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Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:24 am

I played LC for 15 years...

Let me take a look and see if anything is different from what Mars has (but I doubt it...).

Unless you want scans of magic items acquired within the campaign, etc...

RPGâ€™s, D&D in particular has had a major influence in my life. Itâ€™s bonded me together with life long friends...itâ€™s that bond in life not just as friends, but in our jokes, our mannerisms, and what we find funny. Invincible Overlord

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