Invincible Overlord wrote:Lokiwookie - Armor Class 27 on a 6th level wizard:

+10 - Base
+6 - Greater Mage Armor
+4 - Shield
+2 - Cats Grace
+2 - Base 14 Dexterity
+2 - Ring of Protection +2
+1 - Dodge Feat

Looking more carefully to the different type of bonus, Shield is a [Force/Armor] bonus and Greater Mage Armor is a [Force/Armor] bonus too, so they do not stack each other if I am right...
To increase AC, there is a few bonus type (bonuses of different types always stack, bonuses from same types do not stack):
- Armor (force type, like "Mage Armor" and "Shield" spell, each force bonus)
- Deflection (makes attack veer off, like "shield of faith", a cleric spell (and not "shield"))
- Dodge (no spell nor magical items give dodge bonus, only the feat dodge, and it is only for ONE attack)
- Enhancement (increase DEX or effectiveness of armor, etc, like "Cat's Grace")
- Haste (with "Haste" spell)
- And some other that were not quoted there: Insight, Luck, Natural Armor, Profane and Sacred.

Finally, your wizard could not stack Greater Mage Armor and Shield.
The Ring of Protection is a Deflection bonus, so it can stack.

Finally we get:
+10 - Base
+6 - Greater Mage Armor
(+4 - Shield)
+2 - Cats Grace
+2 - Base 14 Dexterity
+2 - Ring of Protection +2
+1 - Dodge Feat
= 23

And do not forget that dodge is only for one attack
And do not forget (bis repetita) that Greater Mage Armor is not a basic spell and most of DM do not accept it at all.

Anyway, it is always possible to increase highly a wizard AC, but the problem is that in the same way the Fighter bonus to attack can be increased in the same way. I remember my wizard/cleric, with all magic items and spells, reached something like 34 (for a few rounds only).

And this thread finally lead to the main problem of D&D3/3.5, the continuous jugglery with rules, bonuses, etc, to enhance again and again your character instead of playing really your character...

Invincible Overlord wrote: (...I put my +1 RoP back into the party treasure   )

A so noble offer :D

Invincible Overlord wrote:Oh also, my Wizard's build (we use the 32 point buy system):

S: 8, D: 14, Con: 16, Int: 19, Wis: 8, Cha: 8

Why characters are always ugly when we use a points buy system?    

lokiwookie wrote:Looking more carefully to the different type of bonus, Shield is a [Force/Armor] bonus and Greater Mage Armor is a [Force/Armor] bonus too, so they do not stack each other if I am right...

Actually, I'm pretty sure Shield and Mage Armor stack, even though they are both Force based. The reason is because Shield is a shield bonus, and Mage Armor is an armor bonus.

My wizard sometimes uses the Mage Armor/Shield combo, and both me and my DM agree we are reading the rules correctly.

If they were both generic Force bonuses, they would not stack, but since they are two different named bonus types (armor, shield), they stack. At least that jives with Skip's explanation here:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040120a

lokiwookie wrote:
Why characters are always ugly when we use a points buy system?    

Plain looking.. not ugly.. They can get all the chicks anyway.. being adventurers and all with all that spare GP's...

Brette:)

Part Two of the article: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040127a

Shield of Faith and Rings of Prot do NOT stack, because they are both deflection bonuses.

Shield and Mage Armor DO stack because Shield is a shield bonus, and Mage Armor is an armor bonus...the confusion may be that they are both Force-based in the spell description. If Shield and Mage Armor were written to state they both provided a +2 bonus of the same name (Armor, Deflection, etc) then yes, they would not stack.

Ah! I see what you're saying.

If you look at the list on p.21 of the DMG (3.5) of Bonus Types, you'll see there is no "Force" bonus - Force is merely part of the spell description.

And Armor bonuses and Shield bonuses are indeed two different bonuses (even though some people might argue that a shield is a piece of armor, so why does it get its own category?).

Hope that helps!

TollHouseGolem wrote:Ah! I see what you're saying.

If you look at the list on p.21 of the DMG (3.5) of Bonus Types, you'll see there is no "Force" bonus - Force is merely part of the spell description.

And Armor bonuses and Shield bonuses are indeed two different bonuses (even though some people might argue that a shield is a piece of armor, so why does it get its own category?).

Hope that helps!

Exactly!

The Shield spell is listed as a "Force" spell after the word Abjuration, because force effects can be used against creatures like Ghosts (as in, the +4 armor class "Shield bonus" you get from the shield spell will defend you against the attack from a ghost).

So, what's in DMG II and PH II, and what are people's experiences with them?

If the Special Edition means the fake leather bound versions, I have a PHB and MM. I've also been selling off copies of the Magic Item Compendium and Spell Compendium because I had a box load of each. But I still have a couple of copies of each, so maybe I'll hold onto one of each.

I think it's time to ditch the 3.0E core books. I've never even read them, and the odds are I never will.

Plaag wrote:Curious to know if 3.0 books from WotC sell less then the 3.5 books.
Course in a similar fashion I wonder if 2ed core books sell better then the ones they released before 3.0 (those Skills and Powers, etc ones.) Do people consider them 2.5ed?

ShaneG.

The 3.0 books sell for way less than the 3.5 books.  These 3.5 books are very popluar right now, would be a good time to sell if you are not playing the game.

Shane: The S&P and C&T 2.0 books seem to me also to represent a clear shift toward the 3.0/3.5 compartmentation of class and racial abilities into skills and feats we discover in 3rd ed. I think of the two sourcebooks as a bridge (intentional when published?) between the two editions.
As for rarity of s&p and c&t, there seems to be a ton of them out there going cheap!
Gary