jasonw1239 wrote:Sounds like the people deciding on this stuff is watching too much TV. I remember seeing some NRA dude on CNN back in the spring saying something along the lines of (and I am paraphrasing)...The way to solve the gun violence problem is for more people to have guns.If solutions like that worked in the real world then why not do things like give every country nuclear weapons? Maybe because some of them are not considered responsible enough to own them?....
bclarkie wrote:Much easier said then done.
JasonZavoda wrote:Armed teachers, what about armed airline personel? Or armed guards on cruise ships. What about a responsible armed citizenry? The world is not a nice safe place, only certain parts it have been made that way for a time, and that time is over.
JasonZavoda wrote:Mush easier to do than you would believe. You just need, motivation.
JasonZavoda wrote:All the teachers I know would pull the trigger.
Mars wrote:Wow! I was thinking the exact opposite. I'm at the university level and I can honestly say that I can't pinpoint one prof that I can say would be able to do it. About 90% of the profs I know would be a definite no and 10% maybe.
Translation of an Assyrian tablet from approx. 2500 BC. I'm sure they must have armed their teachers with swords and spears.
bclarkie wrote:No, its not. Take a look at the video I posted of the police officer who went through a heck of a lot more training than these teachers will be seeing. He let the guy go back to his truck, put his weapon together, load it and he still did nothing about it until it was too late. It is not easy to kill people, at least for those who are not already predisposed to do it. Joe Shmoe on the street is not likely to be predisposed to killing other people.There is a good reason why both the police and the military both make their cadets go through months and months of training and in some circumstances limited types of brain-washing before sending them out into the field where the real danger is.
jasonw1239 wrote:"Our earth is degenerate in these latter days. There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end. Bribery and corruption are common. Children no longer obey their parents. Every man wants to write a book, and the end of the world is evidently approaching."
JasonZavoda wrote:This must be some kind of Anglo thing. I grew up in central Jersey, most of my family came over in '56 after the Russian's came in and killed everyone who resisted. It would have been great to have guns but my relatives didn't so they put plates in the street and when the tanks stopped they jumped on them with gasolines bombs and picked up weapons from dead soldiers. Most of the people I grew up with were eastern european Jews, and Magyars, and lantinos and african americans. You grew up and went into the military and when you got out you found work, or you went bad. I don't know anyone who would have trouble pulling a trigger.
JasonZavoda wrote:Military training isn't about brainwashing. It is about trying to find out if you have what it takes (and most men do, and the ones that don't you don't want, don't want to trust with your life, or behind a gun, or even in front of you, some of those are the ones who wouldn't pull that trigger).
JasonZavoda wrote:What the miilitary does is put men in greater and greater positions of exhaustion and frustration in training. Any decision is wrong, and any action is punished, because the right kind of man say what the hell, and does what he needs to do even if he is going to get stuck in a hole for it, and the wrong kind can't make up his mind, or pull the trigger, or looks for some right way of doing things and doesn't do anything. Because when shit happens there are no right decisions and doing the best thing possible can still get you and people you care about as much as any blood family killed. Because it makes no goddamn sense to put yourself in a position where you know, absolutely know, that you are going to get legs blown off, or blinded or crippled, or worse, but you have to do it anyway. and you do it becuase YOU want to do it, not some order, not some officer telling you to, because if you don't that officer can't do anything worse to you than put you where you are, at the end of gun, standing on some street corner waiting for someone to blow you away.
JasonZavoda wrote:So that idiot police officer was the wrong guy if he couldn't pull the trigger. We are getting back a couple of hundred thousand of the right kind of men and women soon enough, and I guarantee, they won't have any more trouble pulling the trigger than anyone I grew up with.
Grug Greyskin wrote:Despite what Michael Moore would have one believe, in the U.S., places with more liberal gun laws (meaning easier access to firearms) have lower crime rates than places with more restrictive gun laws (accounting for population density, economic conditions, etc.), and municipalities that have changed their laws (either way) have found that in general, more guns means less crime.
JohnGaunt wrote:I wonder if BadMike used these to fuel himself for Gencon:. . . http://www.wendys.com/food/Product.jsp? ... &product=4The Baconator: Two patties of meat, six strips of bacon, 830 calories, 51 grams of fat . . .
bclarkie wrote:Thats pretty much what the gun lobby wants you to believe. It's really not that simple though. For every statistic out there that seems to indicate that its one way, there is another stastic out there that points to an opposite conclusion. The problem is that this issue has become so politicized by both groups, its hard to find numbers that are not completely biased by one group or another.
JasonZavoda wrote:And if the teachers had guns at Columbine (and knew how to use them) there would have been two dead punks and a lot less innocent victims. Instead two pscyho's with light weapons stalked and killed at will (while the police stood around outside).But Hell, with the kind of weapons those kids had if the crowd had rushed them there porobably wouldn't have been any fatalities.
Badmike wrote: Pro gun advocates are going to say a gun toting teacher would have helped; anti-gun advocates, the opposite. It's how the game is played.
bclarkie wrote:This is an issue all unto itself and a very good point. Its easy to shoot at targets during practice, its an entirely different issue altoether having to pull the trigger and potentially end another person's life, even if it appears that they are threatening yours. Some poeple even lock up while deer hunting in what has been know to be called "buck fever" where they have the deer in their sights and just can't pull the trigger. Ending another human beings life is all that much harder for most people to do. Here is a classic example of a police officer who didn't have the courage to do it:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=re ... V0Fgkmp0kU
