Old Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread • Page 37 • Collecting General • The Acaeum

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Old Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread
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lucyjoyce
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Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:25 pm

As some of you know, my son is in the Peace Corps in the Republic of Georgia - the site of a bit of um, political unrest in the past couple of days. Just wanted you to know I spoke with him this morning. He was awakened by artillery fire a couple of days ago (he was near the capital of Tblisi, where a nearby military base was targeted by Russian bombs, apparently). The Peace Corps folks have removed the volunteers from their assignments, and they are near a safe border - able to cross if things get dicey.

Thanks for the kind words in the chat last night. I appreciated them very much.

If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error. - John Kenneth Galbraith

Badmike
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Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:35 pm

lucyjoyce wrote:As some of you know, my son is in the Peace Corps in the Republic of Georgia - the site of a bit of um, political unrest in the past couple of days. Just wanted you to know I spoke with him this morning. He was awakened by artillery fire a couple of days ago (he was near the capital of Tblisi, where a nearby military base was targeted by Russian bombs, apparently). The Peace Corps folks have removed the volunteers from their assignments, and they are near a safe border - able to cross if things get dicey.

Thanks for the kind words in the chat last night. I appreciated them very much.

That's great news LJ....I was thinking about him all day! Good to know he's ready to move out if things get hairy.

Bummer that Russia has decided to start bombing civilian targerts as well as military bases, though. I guess we were all wrong to think the big bear would ever reform completely....they are showing their true colors. Hopefully this can be resolved diplomatically.

But anyway hope your son finishes his assignment either there or wherever they can place him. We really need more young men doing that kind of work!

Mike B.

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Prufrock
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Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:24 pm

lucyjoyce,

Very glad to hear that he is in a safe place. I'm hoping that they will just get everyone out. This is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.

Martin

JohnGaunt
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Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:44 am

lucyjoyce wrote:The Peace Corps folks have removed the volunteers from their assignments, and they are near a safe border - able to cross if things get dicey.

Tanks and bombs and Russian troops aren't dicey?!? The LucyJoyce clan must have some brass cojones.

JohnGaunt
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Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:16 pm

I wonder if BadMike used these to fuel himself for Gencon:

. . . http://www.wendys.com/food/Product.jsp? ... &product=4

The Baconator: Two patties of meat, six strips of bacon, 830 calories, 51 grams of fat . . .

benjoshua
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:46 am

lucyjoyce wrote:As some of you know, my son is in the Peace Corps in the Republic of Georgia - the site of a bit of um, political unrest in the past couple of days. Just wanted you to know I spoke with him this morning. He was awakened by artillery fire a couple of days ago (he was near the capital of Tblisi, where a nearby military base was targeted by Russian bombs, apparently). The Peace Corps folks have removed the volunteers from their assignments, and they are near a safe border - able to cross if things get dicey.

Thanks for the kind words in the chat last night. I appreciated them very much.

It is good to hear he's safe. I hope he will contact you soon and give his take on the situation. One of the things I'm hearing from alternative news sources is that the Georgians started the whole thing with an unprovoked attack. Of course, one of the first casulties in any war is the truth, and it sounds like even if they Georgians started it, the Russians over reacted. Anyway, let us know what your son has heard, it should be interesting. I'll definitely keep praying for his safety.

Truth is worth finding and life is too short to work for money.

Avurax
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:49 pm

When Texas public school teachers start packing, it's time to re-evaluate the "guns are a man's best friend" state motto.

JasonZavoda
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:52 pm

Avurax wrote:When Texas public school teachers start packing, it's time to re-evaluate the "guns are a man's best friend" state motto.

And if the teachers had guns at Columbine (and knew how to use them) there would have been two dead punks and a lot less innocent victims. Instead two pscyho's with light weapons stalked and killed at will (while the police stood around outside).

But Hell, with the kind of weapons those kids had if the crowd had rushed them there porobably wouldn't have been any fatalities.

bclarkie
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:40 pm

JasonZavoda wrote:
And if the teachers had guns at Columbine (and knew how to use them) there would have been two dead punks and a lot less innocent victims. Instead two pscyho's with light weapons stalked and killed at will (while the police stood around outside).

Or those very same teachers could have been involved in a gun fight that ended up killing other innocent people in the crossfire, ended up dead themselves as two more victims and supplied those very same gun toting psychos with two more weapons to kill other students with and perhaps at an even more motivated state to kill as many people as possible then they already were.

When good guys and bad guys end up in a gunfight, unlike the movies the good guys do not always win and innnocent people do in fact get hurt or killed in the crossfire.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

JasonZavoda
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:10 pm

bclarkie wrote:
Or those very same teachers could have been involved in a gun fight that ended up killing other innocent people in the crossfire, ended up dead themselves as two more victims and supplied those very same gun toting psychos with two more weapons to kill other students with and perhaps at an even more motivated state to kill as many people as possible then they already were.

When good guys and bad guys end up in a gunfight, unlike the movies the good guys do not always win and innnocent people do in fact get hurt or killed in the crossfire.

That's a load of crap.

You arm teachers and train them. You select the right kinds of weapons with the right kinds of loads that limit through and through. Low caliber revolvers. You teach the kids to drop and hug the floor.

These guys had guns, they didn't stop killing till they were done and tired of killing. The walked and hunted down their victims. People died because they were wounded and trapped and unarmed against armed psychos.

When the good guys don't do anything the bad guys win.

Training and arming teachers is a damn good idea.

bclarkie
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:26 pm

JasonZavoda wrote:That's a load of crap.

No, its not. I know the truth sucks sometimes, but its still the truth.

JasonZavoda wrote:You arm teachers and train them. You select the right kinds of weapons with the right kinds of loads that limit through and through. Low caliber revolvers. You teach the kids to drop and hug the floor.

Aside from the fact that people get killed in the process of when the real professionals are involved i.e. F.B.I., Swat and the police, none of these teachers will be recieving anywhere close to that amount of training. Even if they were recieving that type of training, its not a guarantee against them getting blown away themselves. On top of the that, the real professionals, the police, themselves make mistakes despite years of training. It happens all of the time.

Also, having students hit the floor does not make them bulletproof. Aside from the fact that the ensuing gunbattle could have had the killers targeting students "huging the floor", there is also the possibility of the armed teachers making a mistake and shooting either an innocent student either through a stray bullet or a thinking a innocent student or other teacher is one of the "bad guys", but just happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I am quite certain "tactics" will not be included within this training.

JasonZavoda wrote:These guys had guns, they didn't stop killing till they were done and tired of killing. The walked and hunted down their victims. People died because they were wounded and trapped and unarmed against armed psychos.

And they were at the killing a good 30 minutes before they voluntarily chose to stop. The police didn't even enter the building a full hour and a half after the shooting had stopped which could have left them that much more time to be killing people. And again at a much more agitated and motivated state then they were already in. A 5 to 10 minute gun battle with these armed teachers that they could have won would not have likely changed much other than to piss them off further.

JasonZavoda wrote:When the good guys don't do anything the bad guys win.

That's why the real "good guys" who are fully and properly trained in the usage of police procedures should be the ones handling the siege. Columbine's biggest issue had nothing to do with armed teachers and everything to do with the delayed police response to the shootings.

JasonZavoda wrote:Training and arming teachers is a damn good idea.

Assuming of course that they in fact "win" the ensuing gun fight and no innocent bystanders get killed in the process.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

PaulKM
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:52 pm

I live in Canada, and while we have had school shootings, and will have more unfortunately, the main issue has always centered on the availability of guns.

We've got lots of guns and we've got a lot of nutjobs, but I don't ever remember having the discussion of arming teachers. It's a choice between gun availability or not: the statistical facts of homicides and suicides by gun availability cannot be argued.

Cultural differences aside, arming teaches sends one message: we don't trust you, and we can kill you. That is the mentality one should expect of prison guards, not teachers.

So lock down the schools, arm the teachers, search the students, put everyone in kevlar vests, but remember that while the nutjob may not shoot up the school, they may walk over to the mall, the library, the bowling alley, the restaurant, the museum, the park, the beach, or wherever the opportunity exists, and carry out their pathetic agenda there.

Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day, and for once I'm inclined to believe...we are indeed drifting into the arena of the unwell.

Mars
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:08 pm

Regardless of training, I'm not sure many teachers would even be able to pull the trigger?

jasonw1239
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:12 pm

Sounds like the people deciding on this stuff is watching too much TV.

I remember seeing some NRA dude on CNN back in the spring saying something along the lines of (and I am paraphrasing)...

The way to solve the gun violence problem is for more people to have guns.

If solutions like that worked in the real world then why not do things like give every country nuclear weapons? Maybe because some of them are not considered responsible enough to own them?....

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JasonZavoda
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:23 pm

PaulKM wrote:I live in Canada, and while we have had school shootings, and will have more unfortunately, the main issue has always centered on the availability of guns.

We've got lots of guns and we've got a lot of nutjobs, but I don't ever remember having the discussion of arming teachers. It's a choice between gun availability or not: the statistical facts of homicides and suicides by gun availability cannot be argued.

Cultural differences aside, arming teaches sends one message: we don't trust you, and we can kill you. That is the mentality one should expect of prison guards, not teachers.

So lock down the schools, arm the teachers, search the students, put everyone in kevlar vests, but remember that while the nutjob may not shoot up the school, they may walk over to the mall, the library, the bowling alley, the restaurant, the museum, the park, the beach, or wherever the opportunity exists, and carry out their pathetic agenda there.

Have you ever been to an American school? I live in Wilmington Delaware and tutor math. Armed teachers would be a godsend. And yes, I have a kevlar vest which I wear from time to time. Very handy indeed. Nothing like having some guy pop all his knuckles going for a kidney punch.

Security works, they can keep a bad situation from getting worse. The idiotic philosophy that if you do nothing a bad situation will go away is like pulling a blanket over your head so that the monsters won't get you. The best security is what is at hand. You can't keep a swat team at school so give the teachers some basic training.

It would be a shame for innocent bystanders to get killed, but it is the teachers who are there, not the police. The teachers who are going to be the first responders. Otherwise by the time the police get to these places the killing has already started.

The kids can take a little uniformity, a little regulation and structure. And they do need a message, teachers are there to protect them and will use deadly force to do it.

And I have my carry permit, so off school grounds, at the mall, the bowling alley, the park, the library, I wouldn't hesitate to put some nutjob down. I don't fire wild, but if someone innocent was hurt, I'd take what justice decreed. I didn't hand over my civic responsibility to the police. I didn't hand it over to the government. Being free means being responsible for upholding that freedom and protecting society, not waiting for society to come and protect you, and no damn way waiting for society to come and protect children. If I saw someone hurting a child, or even pointing a gun at a child, they'd have to put a few in me first, enough to put me down and keep me there.

bclarkie
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:24 pm

Mars wrote:Regardless of training, I'm not sure many teachers would even be able to pull the trigger?

This is an issue all unto itself and a very good point. Its easy to shoot at targets during practice, its an entirely different issue altoether having to pull the trigger and potentially end another person's life, even if it appears that they are threatening yours. Some poeple even lock up while deer hunting in what has been know to be called "buck fever" where they have the deer in their sights and just can't pull the trigger. Ending another human beings life is all that much harder for most people to do.

Here is a classic example of a police officer who didn't have the courage to do it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=re ... V0Fgkmp0kU

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

Last edited by bclarkie on Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JasonZavoda
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:25 pm

Mars wrote:Regardless of training, I'm not sure many teachers would even be able to pull the trigger?

All the teachers I know would pull the trigger.

bclarkie
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:26 pm

JasonZavoda wrote:
All the teachers I know would pull the trigger.

Much easier said then done.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

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