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Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:45 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
Don't worry Malcolm, I'll be packing heat, we'll be ok on the long walk!!!!!  :D

Mike B.


And that is supposed to make me feel BETTER??  :D

Crazy Texans!

Tbh, its just slightly uncomfortable being AROUND anyone with a gun. I guess its because they're not usual in the UK.

Cheers,
Malc

PS How much were you planning on drinking that night Mike?  8O

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:17 pm 
 

lawrenson wrote:
And that is supposed to make me feel BETTER??  :D

Crazy Texans!

Tbh, its just slightly uncomfortable being AROUND anyone with a gun. I guess its because they're not usual in the UK.

Cheers,
Malc

PS How much were you planning on drinking that night Mike?  8O



Leave it to Malc to pretty much sum up my feelings that there should be some restrictions on who can own a gun.

We can all probably agree that more than half the population do not have the intelligence, responsibility, and common sense needed to possess a gun.  Yet most of us will fight to the death that they be allowed to own a gun.  Got mental issues no problem.  Just now going thru a divorce-get yourself a gun.  Feel the government is out to get ya - stockpile lots of guns and ammo.  Does your neighbor not believe in the same God you do-damn right get a gun. Have absolutely no training to know which end the bullet comes out of- no problem.  We will not let you drive, marry, or fish in this country without a license but you can buy a gun (as long as you do not have a felony).

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:41 pm 
 

lawrenson wrote:Tbh, its just slightly uncomfortable being AROUND anyone with a gun. I guess its because they're not usual in the UK.


It is very uncomfortable being around anyone with a loaded gun, especially if they are playing around with it.  I was over at a friends house many years ago with a few other people.  He had a .38 pistol that he was just goofing around with.  Apparently it had a hair trigger and it went off.  Luckily he just shot a hole in his ceiling and not someone's head.  I got super pissed off at the guy though.

And back when I was in high school I could have easily shot myself in the foot with a .410 that also had a hair trigger.  I was being stupid with the gun loaded and pointing at the ground, the safety off, and my finger on the trigger while I was walking through a field.  I tripped over a rock or something and when I reacted I clenched my finger.  BLAM!!!  I almost shit my pants that day.  8O

And just a few months ago, I woke up in the middle of the night to a strange noise.  I kept hearing this noise coming from the back of the house near the garage door.  I pulled my pistol from the closet, loaded the clip into it, pulled back the hammer and loaded a round into the chamber.  After about five minutes I realized that the sound was caused by the wind blowing a tree branch against the exhaust vent on the roof.  I wasnt sure what scared me more....the sound of a possible intruder or that I was prepared to fire a gun at someone?  I had to wait until my adrenaline surge wore off before I could unload the pistol as I was too nervous and thought I might accidentally fire it while I was trying to remove the round from the chamber.  I think my problem there is I really dont like pistols, especially semi-automatics.  I am comfortable with a rifle.  But if I am going to have a gun for home defense I really need a shotgun.  Kind of hard to accidentally kill a neighbor with a shotgun.  :P


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:42 pm 
 

Just a sidenote, Canada has its share of violent crime.  So does the UK.  It's just that both countries benefit from having smaller populations relative to the US, so that it appears as less net crime statistically, because the total populations are less.  But people are people wherever you go, and there's a bad apple in every barrel.

Also, crime and guns are easier to control when you have less people and less territory to keep an eye on.  Take the UK, that nation is fortunate to have an easier time controlling who and what goes in or out by way of geography.  It's a small island with a small population compared with the US, it's exponentially less border to watch and fewer ways to get in.  So gun control is easier for them and makes more sense, with a good chance of making sure NOBODY has them, bad guys or good guys.  Although I hear this is changing and the bad guys are starting to get some guns now.  I read a story recently (that I can't find the link to) about how London beat officers may have start carrying.

In the US, effective gun regulation is logistically impossible.  There's just no way to enforce it realistically, for various reasons.  Too many people, too many folks moving in and out, far too much border to watch, too many firearms already in-country, etc.  It's a pipe dream.

By the way, plenty of people still kill each other in the UK, strict gun laws or no.  They just use knives.  Maybe they need stricter "Knife Control Laws.":
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,364022,00.html

People who want to enact gun laws should read the above article for some perspective.  Sadly, if you are damaged enough to really, really want to murder somebody over nothing, you are going to do it with whatever means come to hand.  A gun is just a tool and I think gun law arguments back and forth just cloud the issue of crime as a whole.

EDITED TO ADD- Okay, I'm really depressed now!  :cry:


Last edited by Agent Cooper on Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:50 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:That's very insightful because most people don't understand in comparing the UK and UK it's apples and oranges..........


Actually I think they are exactly the same... :oops:
Perhaps it was meant to be US and UK?


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:16 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:..... I had to wait until my adrenaline surge wore off before I could unload the pistol as I was too nervous and thought I might accidentally fire it while I was trying to remove the round from the chamber.  I think my problem there is I really dont like pistols, especially semi-automatics.  I am comfortable with a rifle.  But if I am going to have a gun for home defense I really need a shotgun.  Kind of hard to accidentally kill a neighbor with a shotgun.  :P


That says it all right there. You are comfortable with a Rifle, not a semi-automatic pistol.
For Your specific home protection a Shotgun might be a better choice.
Everyone should be comfortable with whatever they use for home protection.
Even if it is a baseball bat.........

However, for home protection, I MUCH prefer either my wifes 9mm Glock, or my .40 Glock.
Pistols (Of course) have less mass, and they can be moved about faster and aimed faster than a shotgun, or a rifle.
Even at night or in a darkened room, especially with night sites.........
The bigger pistol will drop the bad guy with one decently placed shot, the other pistol has less kick, yet still has good stopping power.
With either one I have multiple chances to hit the bag guy and can do so very quickly.
I practice with both of the pistols on a regular basis.
The bad guy would be better off spending that night at home watching re-runs of Gilligan's Island, or Oprah.....


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Last edited by Gnat the Beggar on Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:17 pm 
 

Agent Cooper wrote:Just a sidenote, Canada has its share of violent crime.  So does the UK.  It's just that both countries benefit from having smaller populations relative to the US, so that it appears as less net crime statistically, because the total populations are less.  But people are people wherever you go, and there's a bad apple in every barrel.


It is certainly true that there are bad people, and I might add good people :), wherever you go - but regarding murder, the UK has a dramatically lower rate per capita of murder.  While the UK population is roughly one fifth that of the US, the number of murders is about one twentieth that of the US.  Canada likewise has a lower per capita rate than the US.



Agent Cooper wrote:EDITED TO ADD- Okay, I'm really depressed now!  :cry:


I know! :)  But see point above about good people :) :)
Murder will always make a much better news story than an act of altruism of generosity. I have been fortunate enough to travel quite widely in my life and there is far more that connects people than separates them.  In my experience, in almost every place I have been, people's first instinct is one of helpfulness and friendship.


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:47 pm 
 

And on a different note.  I recently watched Night Watch on DVD.  Tonight it is part 2 - Day Watch.  Anyone else seen these?


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:51 pm 
 

Aneoth wrote:However, for home protection, I MUCH prefer either my wifes 9mm Glock, or my .40 Glock.
Pistols (Of course) have less mass, and they can be moved about faster and aimed faster than a shotgun, or a rifle.
Even at night or in a darkened room, especially with night sites.........
The bigger pistol will drop the bad guy with one decently placed shot, the other pistol has less kick, yet still has good stopping power.
With either one I have multiple chances to hit the bag guy and can do so very quickly.
I practice with both of the pistols on a regular basis.
The bad guy would be better off spending that night at home watching re-runs of Gilligan's Island, or Oprah.....


Pistols may weigh less but they are more difficult to aim properly than a rifle or a shotgun unless you are firing point blank.  The recoil on a pistol with any decent stopping power (.357, .40. , .45) is such that a lot of people dont know how to compensate for it and will altogether miss their target unless they take the time to properly grip the pistol and aim.  Something which most people in the situation of home or self defense dont have time to do.

A rifle is not very well suited to home defense at all (unless you live on a ranch in the middle of nowhere and are planning on sniping some poor bloke).

But a shotgun...well now that is a perfect weapon for defending one's homestead.  Not only will one shot put your attacker down regardless of where he is hit but you run zero risk of hitting a neighbor since the shot only travels a short distance.  Using a pistol may be a bit quicker but you run a greater risk of missing your target.  And if you miss with a high caliber round, you better hope your neighbor isnt in the path of the bullet.  Not to mention, I have heard cops tell stories of heavy leather jackets soaking up enough kinetic energy of a 9mm bullet to the extent that they did very little damage to the bad guy.

Just dont fire your shotgun in the same room as your D&D collectibles.  If you do miss your target you might regret it.


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:55 pm 
 

red_bus wrote:And on a different note.  I recently watched Night Watch on DVD.  Tonight it is part 2 - Day Watch.  Anyone else seen these?


I have seen both of them.  Night Watch was a bit cheesy at first but I ended up liking it very much.  Day Watch started out great but the end was a bit.....I dunno....anticlimatic.  Especially since I have heard that Day Watch wrapped up the storyline.  Originally they were going to make the trilogy into three movies but decided to not make a third movie.

I havent read the books (probably because I cant find them at any local bookstores) but from what I have read, they are very different than the movies.


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:17 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:
Pistols may weigh less but they are more difficult to aim properly than a rifle or a shotgun unless you are firing point blank.  The recoil on a pistol with any decent stopping power (.357, .40. , .45) is such that a lot of people dont know how to compensate for it and will altogether miss their target unless they take the time to properly grip the pistol and aim.  Something which most people in the situation of home or self defense dont have time to do.

A rifle is not very well suited to home defense at all (unless you live on a ranch in the middle of nowhere and are planning on sniping some poor bloke).

But a shotgun...well now that is a perfect weapon for defending one's homestead.  Not only will one shot put your attacker down regardless of where he is hit but you run zero risk of hitting a neighbor since the shot only travels a short distance.  Using a pistol may be a bit quicker but you run a greater risk of missing your target.  And if you miss with a high caliber round, you better hope your neighbor isnt in the path of the bullet.  Not to mention, I have heard cops tell stories of heavy leather jackets soaking up enough kinetic energy of a 9mm bullet to the extent that they did very little damage to the bad guy.

Just dont fire your shotgun in the same room as your D&D collectibles.  If you do miss your target you might regret it.


Some Good points there.
The main thing is to be ready to use whatever protection you feel comfortable with if the need ever comes up.
Hopefully it never will. 8)

As I said, I do practice often with both pistols and feel comfortable with either one.
If the bad guy is in my house it will be close quarters, or at least close enough for inside anyway.
Its a small house.
And I think I could aim well enough in close quarters, even at night and with all the excitement sure to be running through me.
If the bad guy runs outside, then I am done as far as I am concerned.
Let the cops chase him down.
I will tell them to look for the guy running through the neighborhood with crapped underwear and pee stains in front. :lol:

If it comes down to it though and I do have to shoot, then with the .40 he will indeed feel it, leather jacket or not and wont likely get back up after the first hit.
(Although there WILL be another one to follow the first)
With the 9mm, perhaps the first hit wont be all that bad for him, but the next few will certainly start to get my point across to him.
I keep the pistols loaded with extended clips and we have plenty of extra clips.
We have both practiced with them and with replacing clips with some speed.
But honestly, I doubt we would need to replace the clips.
By that point either the bad guy would be down and out (Or out the door running) or I am.

Of course the bad guy in your house wont be getting back up if you hit him at close range with your scatter gun either. 8)


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:25 pm 
 

The only thing I have that could be considered a weapon is my machete.
I have cleared a lot of brush with it and know how to use it.
As an intimidation factor I'm not sure how well it would work but a few good swings should discourage a bugler.
It might not be as lethal as a gun but anybody on the receiving end would probably wish that it was.   :twisted:

Edit: with enough warning I might even be able to grab my full sized heater shield from my old SCA days. :P


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:32 pm 
 

jasonw1239 wrote:The only thing I have that could be considered a weapon is my machete.
I have cleared a lot of brush with it and know how to use it.
As an intimidation factor I'm not sure how well it would work but a few good swings should discourage a bugler.
It might not be as lethal as a gun but anybody on the receiving end would probably wish that it was.   :twisted:

Edit: with enough warning I might even be able to grab my full sized heater shield from my old SCA days. :P


Bugler


umnnn... never mind........


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:19 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:
I have seen both of them.  Night Watch was a bit cheesy at first but I ended up liking it very much.  Day Watch started out great but the end was a bit.....I dunno....anticlimatic.  Especially since I have heard that Day Watch wrapped up the storyline.  Originally they were going to make the trilogy into three movies but decided to not make a third movie.


Aaaarrrggghhhhhhhhh  !!!!!!!!!

Just finished watching it now.  The ending is awful  8O

I think I probably prefer NightWatch too.  This has some really good parts to it, but urgh, the last couple of minutes  :oops:


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:19 pm 
 

Aneoth wrote:
Bugler


umnnn... never mind........


Well, you can be certain that the bastard will think twice about waking Jason up by playing reveille every dawn. :lol:


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:21 pm 
 

red_bus wrote:And on a different note.  I recently watched Night Watch on DVD.  Tonight it is part 2 - Day Watch.  Anyone else seen these?


stephen

yes i have seen them both - i saw them on the cinema - good films - very interesting!

Al

*edit* yes i thought the ending sucked as well :)


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:22 pm 
 

Yep.
Seen em both.
Liked em both to some extent.
John gave a good accounting of them in his post above.


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:25 pm 
 

i have two weapons....

a morning star and a chinese hand-axe

only time i would ever use them is if i caught a burglar in the house.

Al


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