dosselmeyer wrote in CGC Grading Etc...:
1. Frankly, yes.
2. Send your SW items (and all of your other modules for that matter) to CBCS. We do not remove the shrink when we grade the items and we provide an A+ to D- grade on the shrink itself as well.

This question must have certainly been asked, but I couldn’t find it - out of curiosity, how are you able to tell whether shrink is original from the factory.  I know that this is often a source of uncertainty for many collectors interested in shrink.

stratochamp wrote in CGC Grading Etc...:They are not claiming to tell whether it is "original shrinkwrap" or not. Merely a grade of the plastic wrap itself, no matter where it was applied: by Jimmy with a hair dryer in his basement or Vince in the back room at Orc's Nest or Don at the TSR warehouse.

This is incorrect, if we determine the shrink is unoriginal we will contact the customer to see if they want it returned as is, or encapsulated without the shrink. CBCS will not encapsulate unoriginal shrink.

We have a large photo library of original shrinkwrap items as well as access to additional consulting experts if something comes in we do not have reference for.

Tszii wrote in CGC Grading Etc...:Hi Doss, does CBCS have a walk-in service in Plano TX?

100% yes, if you are in town for one of the comic shows, we usually have a booth and I can meet you there as well to discuss your submission if that's easier.

Send me a PM here if you want to come to the office so I can make sure I am available to you.

stratochamp wrote in CGC Grading Etc...:
But you are not perfect and you will make mistakes and a module that Vince did in the back room at Orc's Nest will slip through and receive a shrinkwrap grade from you and it will then have your imprimatur until someone with a better eye comes along and realizes it is not legit. I know people who have been in this hobby for a long time (30-40 years) and I have seen them make mistakes regarding original shrinkwrap. This is why I think it is ridiculous that you are doing this. But since people are currently (and understandably if they plan to sell the items) not willing to have their flimsy petroleum-based sheaths removed, I realize you are fulfilling a niche in our still maturing hobby. Both things can be true: that it is ridiculous and will make you money.

I think that's a tad on the harsh side, Bill. I don't disagree with the accuracy risks, and I wonder about that large photo library for shrink items (worthpoint?). But I can see the value of the service even if it is only achieving say a 97-98% accuracy level. Heck, even a bit lower than that. Anything below 95% and I'll have to agree there is an issue. But above that, it's a huge improvement over what we have today, and will help reduce the attractiveness of fake shrinks. If some fake shrinks slip by, so what - it will still be a lot less than today. I don't think it defeats the collectors purpose to score shrink items.

Perfection is the enemy of good enough.

Let's not forget that sw items might actually be the best candidates for slabbing since no one will complain they won't be read. They weren't going to be in the first place, most are 40-year-old virgins (aka never read). Might as well enshrine them like saints!

From those pioneering, brave souls who've gotten shrink-in-slab already: how about what the Reverend Fred Ghurkin referred to as the glass-onion effect? Both the shrink (possibly a little yellowed with age) & the slab are not 100% clear, so the slightly opaque composition of each one is added to produce a measure of cloudiness. How cloudy is it? Is it enough to affect the use of the item for display?

25 years ago these same comments and conversations were happening when people started grading sealed toys and action figures.
My box is set to be deliverd to CBCS today (just checked tracking). In the age of PDFs I can't imagine why anyone feels the need to use an original vintage product. But the good thing is that there seems to be enough product out there for everyone to enjoy their hobby the way they see fit. Grading generally sucks up the highest grade products out there, which people shouldn't be using for their Friday night game anyway :)
For the conspiratorial out there, I personally don't think this will take off UNLESS one of the big auction houses gets behind it like they did with video games, VHS tapes, betamax, and now records (if you can believe it).That these hobby areas exist should tell you what this is all about, the covers, and not what's inside.

gregory wrote in CGC Grading Etc...:
Which auction houses? Just curious.

Heritage auction has been the leader in driving new collectible genres like this. There' some tin foil hat stuff out there about this, of course.

Tszii wrote in CGC Grading Etc...:

My tin foil hat is a custom stetson when it comes to Golden and Heritage. :)

Both are also a bit old school. They dont have the tech or reach of ebay. I also understand why folks use them. The card guys I follow use ebay as for buying and selling, and only go to G or H if they have truly rare items.

This video is super long. But basically it accuses Heritage of market manipulation. They started a video game grading company, bought graded games at their own auction, then would re-auction them later. This also happened with comics. Grading is good, auctions are good, buying and selling are good. But graders shouldn't buy at sell at their own auctions.

Exposing FRAUD And DECEPTION In The Retro Video Game Market - YouTube

Yup, that's the story I was referring to. Golden I don't follow. Heritage is king for comics and comic art, however. The one advantage they have to justify their fees is the auction format. Ebay allows sniping, ie there is a set end time and that is it, no extension. This is both frustrating at times for the buyer and seller. Heritage always has a true live auction, which maximizes bids.

Tszii wrote in CGC Grading Etc...:

My tin foil hat is a custom stetson when it comes to Golden and Heritage. :)

Both are also a bit old school. They dont have the tech or reach of ebay. I also understand why folks use them. The card guys I follow use ebay as for buying and selling, and only go to G or H if they have truly rare items.

This video is super long. But basically it accuses Heritage of market manipulation. They started a video game grading company, bought graded games at their own auction, then would re-auction them later. This also happened with comics. Grading is good, auctions are good, buying and selling are good. But graders shouldn't buy at sell at their own auctions.

Exposing FRAUD And DECEPTION In The Retro Video Game Market - YouTube

I just watched the whole video, it's an absolute must-watch. Thanks so much for sharing. Now, it's long, and I believe education and awareness are our best defenses... so I have distilled the key messages below, and more importantly what we should do to avoid a repeat in our market:
1. Bubbles form in Collectibles as a result of deliberate colluding between a grading company, an auction house and some collectors. The best bubbles are formed by villains controlling both a grading company and an auction house, while speculating themselves.
2. The antidote to that evil is twofold. Population reports are one. Those are the grading company's records on the items they graded. Over time they act as a good measure of an item rarity.
To that end, I checked the CBCS website and, all to their credit, they have a Population report section. You must first create a free user account. I tested it and it does indeed show the recent grading of a TSR module (Quagmire!, from reseller Packripper aka IS...). As collectors, we should make sure those reports never go away, and use them. That is the first action you can take to avert a bubble (instead of just complaining as we sometimes do - and typically after the harm is done!)
3. The second antidote is to track who owns grading companies and auction houses in our market, and whether they also trade. A big conflict of interest. Now... I could not find any ownership information about CBCS on their website. We would have to find that in regulatory filings. We should lobby them to display their directors and shareholders. That is the second concrete action we can take. Email them and ask. I know they read this forum so I hope they address the question.

And then we must monitor for shill bidding too.

We need to do this with every auction house and grading company that gets involved.

If one wants to check the solution oriented part of the video, it starts at minute 47. But I highly recommend watching the whole video. It could very well happen to our trade and ruin it for the next 30 years otherwise.

Lastly, the Acaeum website and price list is obviously a big part of the solution. We must protect it and ensure its perennity. I asked before, what is the succession plan? Any business needs one.