Aneoth:

>"Perhaps that game was not played under the Stormbringer rules....... "

No, it wasn't.

Tried a game a week or so ago.  Not much to pass judgement on yet, different ways of casting spells and saving throws, lots more hit points at first level.  Way fewer player options so far, no half-orcs, gnomes or druids.

We shall see

Mouse Police wrote:Aneoth:

>"Perhaps that game was not played under the Stormbringer rules....... "

No, it wasn't.

Okie Dokie...
That brings me to another question... or two.
Exactly how many different rules variations/sets are tied into or with the basic (Umnnn basic?) 4th Edition Rules?
It is not even out in the general public yet and there are already variants to the basic rules????!!!!

OMG.............

MadMaligor wrote:Im pretty darn positive its not a WotC released setting

Mongoose Publishing currently has the rights to publish RPG-materials based off of Elric (and the other Moorcock properties).

Well gang, I don't need to make a post about what I "think" it will be like, I can actually post on what it IS like since I DMed my first 4E game this past Sunday. The guys I play 3.5 with wanted a more hack N' slashy type game, and 4E seemed like it would be able to fit the bill. Here's some bullet points. For reference, I'm playing Keep on the Borderlands that I converted over to 4E rules.

The conversion itself actually went pretty smoothly. The way they scale XP and encounters (it's all based on a party of 5 PCs) makes it easy to drop in encounters. Basically, 500 xp worth of stuff is a lvl 1 encounter. So, I'd take a room encounter in the Caves of Chaos and transform it into one 4E encounter. Say...1 Kobold Dragonshield, 2 Kobold Slingers, and 7 Kobold Minions. Boom. Done. Treasure is done the same way, they actually have "packages" per level that they suggest, and you fill in the blanks. Easy, smooth, and pretty intuitive.

Level one for my players is a WHOLE lot more interesting. You've got what they call "at will" powers (basically you can use as many times in an encounter as you want), "encounter" powers (you use once per fight) and "daily" powers (once per day). In the above encounter, for instance, the ranger uses Split the Oak and fires two arrows, each at a different target, felling two kobolds. The Dragonborne Warlord runs up, and breathes fire on the kobolds, killing most of the Minions. The remaining minions proceed to pelt him with javelins, and knock him unconscious. Since those powers are encounter powers, they can't use them anymore, but they have others they can use. No more "I'm the mage and I cast my one sleep spell for the day, now I'm useless". Even the Warlocks and Wizard types get "at will" zappy type powers, so nobody is ever useless.

The minion concept is amazing. Basically, these monsters only have 1 hp, so they die when they get hit. However, their attacks and such are basically just as good as a "normal" lvl 1 monster so they still get to whale on your PCs. The Warlord player in the above scenario no longer runs up all by himself to breathe on giant groups of monsters, even minions, after he got pelted hehe. They let you have a balanced encounter that contains more than like 4 monsters. Heck, you could have them fight 20 Kobold Minions as a first level encounter! In fact, they are headed for that next week's game.

There are also "elite" and "solo" versions of monsters you can throw at your players as well. An "elite" monster I've been using for the various chieftains in the Caves of Chaos, they basically count as two comparable monsters at that level. The lowest level solo encounter they have is great, you can fight a young white dragon as a solo monster at level 3! That's just cool, and I stuck one in place of the ogre to give them something to look forward to.

Minis are a must in combat in 4E now, but that's not a big deal for me since I've always used minis. Making 100% sure everybody is on the same page as far as area effects, range, flanking etc, just makes the minis a must. The Ral Partha kobolds are great, and the players loved them.

Of course there are some bad parts too, but I mainly chalk them up to it being a young game. The monster and magic item selections are lame, but again, when they release some more books, that will improve. The PC class list is kinda light (no Bards? Druids?), but I think the way they kind of specialize your PC as they get higher in level is a cool concept too. Whoever laid out the PHB needs to be busted in the knees, it's a royal pain in the arse finding a specific rule in that thing. The DMG is about 90% useless for me as well, it's really intended for people who have never DMed anything before. But, since this is a new launch and they are trying to get NEW people into he game, I guess I can see why that's needed.

In a nutshell, it's the most ambitious change that's ever been done to the D&D name. After playing it, I can really see the path they took towards setting it up in a relevant way to the current gaming crowd and new player environment. I think it's pretty good to be honest, and we had a lotta fun playing our first game. Will that feeling hold up? Will it get lame in a few levels? I guess only time will tell.

I forgot to mention. Even though this game has no collection value, this IS the 4E thread so I don't feel bad about posting this here. If you have any questions about 4E just ask, I'll be happy to answer. I think one of the greatest impacts 4E is going to have on ME and my players is the simple fact that I get to introduce a new generation of players to old modules!!! Temple of Elemental Evil is up next after Keep on the Borderlands, and I don't care WHAT rules set I use, DMing Temple is just amazing fun.

Zen

Zenfinite wrote:

In a nutshell, it's the most ambitious change that's ever been done to the D&D name. After playing it, I can really see the path they took towards setting it up in a relevant way to the current gaming crowd and new player environment. I think it's pretty good to be honest, and we had a lotta fun playing our first game. Will that feeling hold up? Will it get lame in a few levels? I guess only time will tell.

I forgot to mention. Even though this game has no collection value, this IS the 4E thread so I don't feel bad about posting this here. If you have any questions about 4E just ask, I'll be happy to answer. I think one of the greatest impacts 4E is going to have on ME and my players is the simple fact that I get to introduce a new generation of players to old modules!!! Temple of Elemental Evil is up next after Keep on the Borderlands, and I don't care WHAT rules set I use, DMing Temple is just amazing fun.

Zen

While I could probably watch a session of this without losing my lunch, it still won't be my game of choice.  Nice to see stuff like B2, T1-4 converts so easily.




And as for collectibility, well, it's already more collectible than about anything 3E:




http://cgi.ebay.com/Treasure-of-Talon-Pass-Dungeons-Dragons-Free-RPG-Day_W0QQitemZ360063586290QQihZ023QQcategoryZ44113QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem




Mike B.

Agent Cooper wrote:Zenfinite:
You say character class selection is light.
What classes are available?
How is the combat system?  Still D20 based?

Let's see. Cleric, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Warlock, Warlord, Wizard. So, 8 choices. Races are Dragonborn, Dwarf, Eladrin, Elf, Half-Elf, Halfling, Human, Tiefling. 8 there as well. It probably feels light because we're used to full games evolution with add ons, splatbooks, etc etc.

No, it's a completely new combat system. I mean, you still use the same dice, but they redesigned it from the ground up. It still uses some aspects of previous games, but it's new enough that it feels all new. There's still attacks of opportunity, for instance, but they aren't as silly from a rules standpoint as 3.5 et al was.

As far as Prufrock's post, it's impossible to take out the role playing. There are no rules for that, I mean, you can act however you want. The Paladin in my group acts out every time he "marks" an opponent (basically marking an opponent forces them to attack you or they take a - to hit and holy damage), so honestly, RP is always dependent on the players, not the rules. And I have no idea where a 34 hp mage comes from. They merely front load hp now. The aforementioned Paladin has 27 hp at first level. And the first level enemies he was fighting do d6+3 damage, with a special of 2 hp ongoing damage (repeats every round until you save). You don't roll random dice anymore for hp, you gain a set amount every level. It's just that way, I think, so there's no more "Rats, my mage only has 4 hp, and the random kobold arrow just killed me." This new edition is all about balance, and you feel useful from the start, right from level 1 you're doing cool stuff, to get new people into the game.

Keep the questions and comment coming!! I'm an old fogey too, by the way, but maybe a hybrid old fogey. New rules, but the old modules are STILL the best, far and away.

Zen

"Marking" an opponent in battle isn't really roleplaying. Talking a crowd out of crucifying an aaracockra (name that module!), investigating  mysterious disappearances, researching lore about an old castle, things like that constitute roleplaying. Just because a player has his character say "Booyah!" whenever he defeats an opponent doesn't make him a roleplayer.
As far as balance: Played properly a 1st level mage is just as useful as a 1st level fighter. In fact, under my 6 second rule, the MAGE is usually the one directing the battle if necessary. He is typically the one with the best view of any melee involving several creatures, and therefore can keep the party informed of events WHILE he casts spells, hurls missiles, etc. It sounds like you mean "immediately making kills" when you say "doing cool stuff". I know 3E is largely focused on kills, so I would be very surprised if 4E is not.
The fact remains that today's younger generation is less intelligent, more visually oriented, and more based on instant gratification. There's a reason Playstations and other game consoles sell so well.

Deadlord39 wrote:"Marking" an opponent in battle isn't really roleplaying.

Depends on how you do it.  

If you actually say something interesting and non-repetitive, in character, maybe it counts.  If you just say "I mark my opponent", that's not roleplaying.

(Unless you're roleplaying a monotonous obsessive-compulsive who literally states "I mark my opponent.", in character.)