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mbassoc2003
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:09 am

You would have thought the US had laws regarding who is and isn't allowed to use a gun?

A decade in prison to think about how seriously she is willing to take gun safety, and whether or not ignoring her responsibility is really worth being separated from her family for ten years may help her re-evaluate her attention to detail.

At the same time, if Alec Baldwin picked up the gun, refused to check to see if it was loaded or not, and then chose to point it at people and start shooting - he should be charged with involuntary manslaughter (as opposed to 'killing someone while rich' which comes with a much reduced sentence). But he's made his point now. Guns are dangerous.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

dbartman
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:42 pm

We do have laws, but unless you are a convicted criminal, have a mental health illness, or are addicted to a controlled substance, almost every adult U.S. citizen can purchase, possess, and use most guns, with a few exceptions (fully automatic weapons, silencers). It is regarded as a person's basic right to be allowed to do this.

Assistant director Dave Halls provided the gun to Baldwin, who at that point assumed that it had been checked. It's doubtful that Alec will be culpable for the shooting, as he would have completely trusted that the gun was safe to use at the time. Time will tell what actually happened. What is certain is that someone made a huge mistake.

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:06 pm

dbartman wrote in Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread:We do have laws, but unless you are a convicted criminal, have a mental health illness, or are addicted to a controlled substance, almost every adult U.S. citizen can purchase, possess, and use most guns, with a few exceptions (fully automatic weapons, silencers). It is regarded as a person's basic right to be allowed to do this.

With no requirement to undergo training? Like presumably you have to do classes and pass a test to drive a car?

dbartman wrote in Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread:Assistant director Dave Halls provided the gun to Baldwin, who at that point assumed that it had been checked. It's doubtful that Alec will be culpable for the shooting, as he would have completely trusted that the gun was safe to use at the time. Time will tell what actually happened. What is certain is that someone made a huge mistake.

So if you 'assume' you get a free pass on gun safety number 1 - Always assume a weapon is loaded? The article I read said he picked it up off of a table (as opposed to being handed it), and that he pointed it and fired just to see what would happen (ie. the cameras were not rolling). If Dave Hall handed a loaded gun to Alec Baldwin and intimated that it was safe to fire, he's clearly an accessory to manslaughter.

I don't quite get the, 'well I assumed it was empty when I killed her' defense. Is that how the US system works or is it a money thing?

This'll be the newest distraction now that the Petito thing has blown over. Our news is just so boring. We have multiple gangland stabbings every day here in the UK, but our news is so heavily censored and sanitized that dead kids (and its mostly children) are just there for fluff. Your op-ed type of news and the political meanderings that are woven through it are just a bit more gripping to follow, and to a certain degree (arguably) more honest.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

shadeun
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:01 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote in Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread:With no requirement to undergo training? Like presumably you have to do classes and pass a test to drive a car?

Well you're not required to prove that the car wont explode. You wouldn't be held liable if the accelerator got stuck and you'd kept otherwise good care of the car. Thats on the manufacturer.

We undertake a lot of risky activities where we trust that others have done their job or we may die (stepping on a bus for example).

Alec Baldwin is a very rich man who, I dont think unreasonably, entrusts more things to helpers than a Father & Son hunting team who are holy focused on a gun-toting session of animal murder.

So I dont think he should be liable, and if hes not charged - its not some conspiracy.

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:38 pm

Given that there is a girl on set who’s entire jobs is only to ensure that the weapons are safely controlled,maintained and managed, I’d say she is the one responsible for ensuring a gun has not got a live round in it pointed at someone else’s body.

That said, as with driving a car, if you drive it at a cloud of people and say, ‘well, I assumed it was out of gas’ or ‘I assumed the handbrake would hold’ that is still intent to injure or kill hiding behind the thin veneer of ‘well I assumed’ and negligence resulting in death.

If you pick up a gun and point it at someone your intention is to kill. If you assume there isn’t a bullet in it but you can’t be bothered checking, you are negligent and your actions result in death. If you get off without being charged with negligent manslaughter, clearly that is a statement more about who you are and what influence you can bring to bear than about the definitions of negligence and manslaughter.

Still, if you jail the armoured for a decade, and say it was her fault, that solves the problem. That’s what patsies are for.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

Agent Cooper
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:42 pm

What in heavens name was a loaded gun doing on a movie set? Why did they need live ammo for a film? Something not adding up here.

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mbassoc2003
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:06 pm

shadeun wrote in Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread:Well you're not required to prove that the car wont explode. You wouldn't be held liable if the accelerator got stuck and you'd kept otherwise good care of the car. Thats on the manufacturer.

Oh, I’m not in any way trying to say the gun was faulty. The very opposite in fact. It worked absolutely perfectly, exactly as it was intended to. It had clearly be well maintained and was primed to do exactly what guns are meant to do.

Comparing it to a faulty car is clearly obfuscation. The fault was in the brain of the person who did not follow any form of safety or protocol when he picked up a gun and blew his cinematographer away. Let’s hope she hasn’t got kids and a husband who has to explain to them why the bad man on telly blew their mommy away. She was young. I sure as hell hope she didn’t have a kids.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:09 pm

Agent Cooper wrote in Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread:What in heavens name was a loaded gun doing on a movie set? Why did they need live ammo for a film? Something not adding up here.

Proving Alec Baldwin’s point that guns are dangerous and should be banned.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

FoulFoot
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:19 pm

She did have a son. And it wouldn't have mattered if Baldwin checked the chamber; the gun was loaded with blanks, which look just like real bullets. Baldwin actually had been commended in the past for his weapons safety.

No one is likely to go to jail for this, with the exception possibly of the armorer for manslaughter. There was no intent; it was an accident. However, the civil case against the armorer and perhaps other individuals on the set / in the production company will be crippling, and rightfully so. The armorer, at the very least, was grossly negligent. The assistant director who handed the weapon to Baldwin and told him "cold gun" is also liable. Baldwin, the least so of the three. IMHO.

The only thing money gets you in the U.S. is the advantage of getting a good attorney (which is half the battle, admittedly). He isn't going to get any preferential treatment from the judicial system because he's wealthy and a celebrity. Actually, probably the opposite; there's nothing more titillating to the American public than watching public figures "get theirs", whatever that is.

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jeffsea
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:37 pm

dbartman wrote in Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread:Assistant director Dave Halls provided the gun to Baldwin, who at that point assumed that it had been checked. It's doubtful that Alec will be culpable for the shooting, as he would have completely trusted that the gun was safe to use at the time. Time will tell what actually happened. What is certain is that someone made a huge mistake.

shadeun wrote in Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread:
Alec Baldwin is a very rich man who, I dont think unreasonably, entrusts more things to helpers than a Father & Son hunting team who are holy focused on a gun-toting session of animal murder.

So I dont think he should be liable, and if hes not charged - its not some conspiracy.

I 100% disagree with these parts of dbartman and shadeun's statements. It is important to remember that Alec Baldwin is not just an actor on that set, he is an exec producer of the film, something akin to a boss at a store who also occasionally fills in on the salesfloor. He, Baldwin, does not get to just plead ignorance of the gun being loaded, when he, Baldwin is responsible for providing a safe work environment.

I also understand that there were at least two previous accidental discharges on that movie. Further, the standard industry safety rules require that the on set Armorer and only the Armorer be the only one to load, supervise, and hand out the prop guns. That assistant director is in a lot of trouble if they circumvented that system, but Baldwin is also responsible as the boss.

Baldwin could easily get in trouble along the lines of involuntary manslaughter charges, or a contributory negligence action.

Most famous example in the American film industry is the Twilight Zone movie where actor Vince Morrow and two child extras died in a helicopter crash and a whole bunch of people got charged for either manslaughter or negligent homicide. Of course they then got acquitted, but a helicopter crash, and pointing a gun at someone else and pointing the trigger might be viewed differently by an American jury.

Sir Kill Alot
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:52 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote in Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread:
Proving Alec Baldwin’s point that guns are dangerous and should be banned.

Time out...guns don't kill people. People kill people. Stupid schmucks kill people. Leaving firearm responsibility up to someone who probably has zero merit kills people. 60% of guns deaths are from suicide so those individuals were unstable to begin with and shouldn't have had access to a firearm. With the 1st amendment in the process of being erased by state sponsored media and socialist big tech firms, the 2nd amendment is all that will stand between freedom and tyranny. I'm not a gun loving nutcase. However I think its pretty funny (sad actually) when these Hollywood fkrs wanting to do away with guns show up at awards shows with bodyguards armed to the teeth. Practice what you preach and maybe someone will start listening to you. Until then fk off.

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benjoshua
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:41 pm

I went to see the movie Dune today, and I'm glad I went ahead and saw it. I don't believe I am ruining it for anyone by saying this movie only covers the first half of the book. What's worse, Dune Part 2 hasn't even been approved by the film studio. Movie execs are waiting to see how this movie is accepted/liked, or not. It's likely that Dune fans will need to wait until 2023 or even later for the sequel, if it's even made.

The special effects were excellent, and the movie sound track has lots of mood music. The dialogue is relatively sparse. The cast is first-rate. I admire Javier Bardem in particular. I thought this movie set the stage for a possible good ending, but I guess we'll have to see. It's off to a better start than the 1984 Dune movie.

My guess is that, the closer you are to being born somewhere in 1955-1970, the more you'll hate the movie. It's hard to compete with nostalgia. Fortunately, the last time I read the book was forty years ago or so, so I wasn't fighting nostalgic images and memories as much. I don't even know for sure how representative the movie is to the book. I plan on reading the book again eventually.

It wasn't too long or too short, but you probably want to go to the bathroom before the movie starts. My theater had maybe ten people in it for a 4 PM showing which surprised me. I thought there would be more. I saw it in 3D, and there were times I was glad I did.

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Last edited by benjoshua on Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sir Kill Alot
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:11 pm

Thanks for the review. Its on HBO max until the middle of November? I think. I just re-watched the original a couple of months ago so I've been chomping at the bit to see this one. I am curious now how far the new one goes now that it only covers half the book. I'm probably in the minority here having never read it.

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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:17 pm

Henry and I read Dune aloud earlier this summer in prep for the film, and we'll see it next weekend, hopefully.

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ashmire13
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:42 pm

Sir Kill Alot wrote in Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread:Thanks for the review. Its on HBO max until the middle of November? I think. I just re-watched the original a couple of months ago so I've been chomping at the bit to see this one. I am curious now how far the new one goes now that it only covers half the book. I'm probably in the minority here having never read it.

-SKA

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mbassoc2003
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:58 am

Sir Kill Alot wrote in Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread:Time out...guns don't kill people. People kill people. Stupid schmucks kill people. Leaving firearm responsibility up to someone who probably has zero merit kills people. 60% of guns deaths are from suicide so those individuals were unstable to begin with and shouldn't have had access to a firearm. With the 1st amendment in the process of being erased by state sponsored media and socialist big tech firms, the 2nd amendment is all that will stand between freedom and tyranny. I'm not a gun loving nutcase. However I think its pretty funny (sad actually) when these Hollywood fkrs wanting to do away with guns show up at awards shows with bodyguards armed to the teeth. Practice what you preach and maybe someone will start listening to you. Until then fk off.

This is the problem isn't it. We all know who the killer was. But the way the law is written he walks free cos he 'assumed' and he's an anti-gun advocate who makes his money promoting gun violence on film. No-one can deny he killed a woman. No one can deny it is his own negligence. No-one can deny he was the trigger man, or the producer. But in the USA if you're the richest guy in the room you get to walk free. Send the patsy down cos she clearly put a live round in a gun on a set where no live rounds were either required or permitted according the the other walking wounded. Until the US figure out how to write laws that prosecute gunmen and require gun users to have training, there will remain this ridiculous 'I'm too rich to go to jail' and 'see I told you it was dangerous' stance in society. There are those who believe he is not at fault, even here among otherwise educated and rational folks.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:03 am

benjoshua wrote in Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread:I went to see the movie Dune today, and I'm glad I went ahead and saw it. I don't believe I am ruining it for anyone by saying this movie only covers the first half of the book. What's worse, Dune Part 2 hasn't even been approved by the film studio. Movie execs are waiting to see how this movie is accepted/liked, or not. It's likely that Dune fans will need to wait until 2023 or even later for the sequel, if it's even made.

The special effects were excellent, and the movie sound track has lots of mood music. The dialogue is relatively sparse. The cast is first-rate. I admire Javier Bardem in particular. I thought this movie set the stage for a possible good ending, but I guess we'll have to see. It's off to a better start than the 1984 Dune movie.

My guess is that, the closer you are to being born somewhere in 1955-1970, the more you'll hate the movie. It's hard to compete with nostalgia. Fortunately, the last time I read the book was forty years ago or so, so I wasn't fighting nostalgic images and memories as much. I don't even know for sure representative the movie is to the book. I plan on reading the book again eventually.

It wasn't too long or too short, but you probably want to go to the bathroom before the movie starts. My theater had maybe ten people in it for a 4 PM showing which surprised me. I thought there would be more. I saw it in 3D, and there were times I was glad I did.

I never really had any affinity with the original, but I didn't know the film was being split in two. That's a real bummer. I don't think we have the option to watch films in 3D here outside of maybe London I've certainly never seen anything like that advertised anyways. Is it still done with magic glasses?

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

ashmire13
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:01 am

mbassoc2003 wrote in Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread:I never really had any affinity with the original, but I didn't know the film was being split in two. That's a real bummer. I don't think we have the option to watch films in 3D here outside of maybe London I've certainly never seen anything like that advertised anyways. Is it still done with magic glasses?

3D is available outside London, but you may find it isn’t in some back water towns or countries PDT_Armataz_01_01

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