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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:04 pm 
 

ExTSR wrote:Guys, if you get a C&D (as I think you prolly will) just bite the bullet and learn from this.

Do it again but do it right next time, eh?

*nods* ... and it should be informative to hear just where WotC believes the line in the sand to be, should that information be proffered.

Having said that, it's still good to read the likes of the following on James M.'s blog;
blackstone said...

   Wow, I see alot of hypocracy...

   I think Die Cast Games has some guts, and I applaud them for it.

   All of the b*tching and moaning since 3E came out ten years ago:

   -How WoTC is messing with the gaming commmunity.

   -Revamping the game where there is no backward-compatability.

   -Putting out inferior product.

   -Disregarding Gygax's and Arneson's legacy.

   etc.

   Basically: us old school gamers view WoTc as a puppet to Hasbro, and don't care about us.

   Which is absolutely true.

   NOW you people are CONDEMNING this fellow?

   Really?

   What is comes down to is this: nobody here is WILLING to make to move like this guy did.

   Die Cast Games picked up the rifle and fired the first REAL shot of the revolution...

   And you folks are ready to turn him in.

   Pathetic.
   August 11, 2010 11:26 PM

PDT_Armataz_01_36

Aside from wondering where the overly-negative stone-throwers have been sleeping these past few weeks, it's amusing to know that some of those individuals deliberately trade in illegal .pdfs on the sly, and even have boards set up for that purpose. Just a slight hint of hypocrisy there, IMHO...

burntwire brothers wrote:It will replace the OGL page :)

Darn; too many of us thinking alike? ^^
Was going to suggest auctioning off the C&D letter, too, but I'm sure that's /waaaay/ too obvious!

Cheers,
d.


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:16 pm 
 

Hrmph. Altho James M had the decency to apologize to me (albeit in weasely fashion) about his blogpost ridiculing my company plans last year, I still don't like his style.

otoh he has Contributed here and there (like in a mag in which Tim K also appears), so my jury is still out.

That said, I do not agree with claims that his is the 'predominant Old School blog.' Bah. Lots of good opinionators out there these days; I have over 30 on my Favorites hotlink bar.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:20 pm 
 

faro wrote:Was going to suggest auctioning off the C&D letter, too


Is it legal in US to auction such letters? Selling or publishing anything like this in France will throw you in jail (or at least you will have to pay a huge fee to the French governement)


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:30 pm 
 

lokiwookie wrote:
Is it legal in US to auction such letters? Selling or publishing anything like this in France will throw you in jail (or at least you will have to pay a huge fee to the French governement)


French law is very different from US/UK law. A "cease and desist" is just the name of a type of letter; it's not an official document, and can be written by a non-lawyer.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:37 pm 
 

Mythmere1 wrote:
French law is very different from US/UK law. A "cease and desist" is just the name of a type of letter; it's not an official document, and can be written by a non-lawyer.


Thanks!
In France nothing can be done without a lawyer  :?  they are like mafia!


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:49 pm 
 

ExTSR wrote:Hrmph. Altho James M had the decency to apologize to me (albeit in weasely fashion) about his blogpost ridiculing my company plans last year, I still don't like his style.

otoh he has Contributed here and there (like in a mag in which Tim K also appears), so my jury is still out.


I don't agree with everything James says, as I think he's as little naive at times about stuff.  I think his "Canadian-ness" comes through a lot too in his determination in a lot of cases to take the safe or less controversial side of an argument. I think he has some good takes and does have a huge audience that hangs on his every word, so the more he talks up old school, Clark Ashton Smith, or new releases, the better.  

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:58 pm 
 

ExTSR wrote:Hrmph. Altho James M had the decency to apologize to me (albeit in weasely fashion) about his blogpost ridiculing my company plans last year, I still don't like his style.

otoh he has Contributed here and there (like in a mag in which Tim K also appears), so my jury is still out.

That said, I do not agree with claims that his is the 'predominant Old School blog.' Bah. Lots of good opinionators out there these days; I have over 30 on my Favorites hotlink bar.


I love the way these guys think that their AD&D/D&D rip-off retro-crap is something 'new and original'.

James M is another one that wants to "sacrifice to his evil WoTC gods" and is worried about that OSR garbage.  

What a pathetic bunch of weasels and informers. They would fit right in with the soviet system, occupied France or Ireland. Quisling bastards.


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:12 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:
I love the way these guys think that their AD&D/D&D rip-off retro-crap is something 'new and original'.

James M is another one that wants to "sacrifice to his evil WoTC gods" and is worried about that OSR garbage.  

What a pathetic bunch of weasels and informers. They would fit right in with the soviet system, occupied France or Ireland. Quisling bastards.


Bah, his blog is just one long unsolicited job audition for when he's no longer a stay-at-home Dad. My wife keeps trying to get me to do the same.


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:27 pm 
 

burntwire brothers wrote:
It will replace the OGL page  :)



Brilliant!  :cheers:



My gut is that nothing will happen, or if you do get a C&D, you'll be sold out by the time it arrives and thus be a moot point, as you can probably just change a few things to be compliant.

As such, it could be useful as setting precedent/defining the acceptable boundaries.  :study:


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:14 pm 
 

WE ARE SOLD OUT


Available now from Die Cast Games: Night of the Black Swords by Allen Hammack (Author of C2-The Ghost Tower of Inverness) with artwork by Jeff Easley and Diesel.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:32 pm 
 

PDT_Armataz_01_34  PDT_Armataz_01_37  PDT_Armataz_01_34  :thumleft:  :thumright:

  

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:51 pm 
 

Now, we have to wait the C&D letter to see a 2nd print run?  :lol:


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:41 pm 
 

burntwire brothers wrote:WE ARE SOLD OUT


Outstanding.  This is the first collectible I've bought that actually has a story behind it. Too cool.

Hope you don't get a c&d, but if you do, I'll buy a copy to put with my module!

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:46 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:What a pathetic bunch of weasels and informers. They would fit right in with the soviet system, occupied France or Ireland. Quisling bastards.

You never mince words, do you?  :D  Some people are living down to your expectations, so your earlier opinion may be more correct than I thought.

OK, Jason has brought the Quislings, so Nazis have tangentially entered the discussion.  Doesn't that mean that this thread should end soon? :)

This reminds me of a short bit by Henry Rollins.  He talks about men behave.  Friends go to a bar to chase women.  When chatting up a woman, men say, "Him?  My buddy over there?  Don't go out with him; he's an asshole.  But me, I've got class."

Also, "Those who know do not speak; those who speak do not know."  Frank, Matt, Bill, and Devon are people who have actually published game materials, and they are staying above the fray.  Meanwhile, an amazing amount of "I Am Not A Lawyer" posts are interpreting law on other boards.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:48 pm 
 

Keith the Thief wrote:Outstanding.  This is the first collectible I've bought that actually has a story behind it.

What; no Bottle City? :P (down to the last 15 copies, it seems...)


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:59 pm 
 

It was one heck of a gutsy move.  I just worry about the timing; they might be less concerned about twenty-five year old trade dress if they weren't in the process of releasing a new line of products that mimics that same twenty-five year old trade dress.

Anyhoo, congratulations on selling out--I'm looking forward to reading the module!

  

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Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:15 am 
 

JohnGaunt wrote:You never mince words, do you?  :D  Some people are living down to your expectations, so your earlier opinion may be more correct than I thought.

OK, Jason has brought the Quislings, so Nazis have tangentially entered the discussion.  Doesn't that mean that this thread should end soon? :)

This reminds me of a short bit by Henry Rollins.  He talks about men behave.  Friends go to a bar to chase women.  When chatting up a woman, men say, "Him?  My buddy over there?  Don't go out with him; he's an asshole.  But me, I've got class."

Also, "Those who know do not speak; those who speak do not know."  Frank, Matt, Bill, and Devon are people who have actually published game materials, and they are staying above the fray.  Meanwhile, an amazing amount of "I Am Not A Lawyer" posts are interpreting law on other boards.


Me, I'm a quiet pleasant fellow. I haven't pulled anyones thumb out of their socket in years, but my Dad was a WWII combat vet and I always had a healthy respect for his way of expressing himself.

While this has been an interesting day I hate to see a bunch of sniveling little shits, back-biting and generally crawling around in their own fearful puddles of slime while they attack someone and not be able to do something about it. Kudos to Mike for getting in their face and bitch slapping one of the worst of them.

I'm surprised all of this, any of this, started in the first place. What decent human beings might have done is say, "Hey, you know this module might bring the guy some trouble. Here are a few ways I think he could avoid trouble. Excellent porduct by the way."

What we got instead is an example of the human filth which inhabits the internet and are involved in this hobby.


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:35 am 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:
I'm surprised all of this, any of this, started in the first place. What decent human beings might have done is say, "Hey, you know this module might bring the guy some trouble. Here are a few ways I think he could avoid trouble. Excellent product by the way."

What we got instead is an example of the human filth which inhabits the internet and are involved in this hobby.


I'm still really confused by the venom I saw out there regarding Insidious and it's legality/illegality.  Instead of a give and take or informed argument you had many "BURN THE WITCH!" posts interspersed with attacks on the Hibbs and even some who were going out of there way to claim they hoped WOTC crushed the villains.  I mean, posters that went out of their way to call the authors stupid, retarded, etc for no earthly reason...were they hoping to get a cookie sent to them from Hasbro???

And all this because they were scared of losing....something.  Still don't know what and I don't believe it was ever articulated properly.  Honestly it put me in mind of a group of villagers throwing one of their own into the waves to sacrifice to Dagon....hoping the offering won't offend the gods and they can continue fishing as normal.  This is exactly why there isn't really an "OSR" except in name only...too many diverse personalities, too many complainers, too many opinions, and no shared goals or definitions.

And I've still never been given any sort of explanation how on Earth a power mad WOTC would "shut down" self-publishing.  But that's precisely the reason that lots of the posters gave as a reason to run around like ninnies screaming and pulling out their hair.

The next time someone calls a scene in a King story like The Mist or Storm of the Century unbelievable because "people wouldn't turn on each other that fast" I'll just remember this shining little episode of hysteria and fear.

Mike B.


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