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[Off topic] A sad, sad story of embezzlement in gaming
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:33 pm 
 

I have no sympathy for people that stupid in life. It's natural evolution at work. It happens everey single day in every walk of life and in every company and corporation in the world. If it's not a night shift teller sneaking ten bucks or one mega-corporation stealing another's hard earned work, it's a CEO pocketing a few million here and a few million there and the manager of the pension fund holidaying in Barbados.

I just can't find it in my heart to have simpathy for people so stupid and incompetant. TBH, he should have been sued for being so damned incompetant in his business dealings. Whether knowingly or not, he was complicit in the crime. He just wasn't bright enough to make sure he profitted from it.


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:16 pm 
 

I tend to disagree....even if he is incompetent in controlling his business, which he clearly was, it still doesn't give anyone the right to steal, lie, or fraudulently take anything unethically. Just because he was 'smart' enough to find the way to do it, doesnt make it right....what about the impact it had to the hundreds of other people affected ? their life savings ? etc.

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Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:04 am 
 

By the same accounts, no-one has the right to mug you and steal your money, but if you're stupid enough to go walking around downtown with handing out $100 bills from a big bag of money, you really can't have sympathy for the guy if he ends up in the gutter bleeding a bit.

By the same accounts, no-one has the right to steal your car or steal your laptop, but if you leave your car in a darkenned alley with the keys in the ignition and the windows down, your laptop and breifcase on the passanger seat, and then you go and sit in a restaurant and have lunch a couple of blocks away, you really can't be surprised or ask for sympathy if you come back and your laptop is gone.

Insurance companies specifically don't insure these things for a reason. You cannot ever provide compensation or recompense for the sheer stupidity of people. They need to learn and pass those lessons on to their children or the will not evolve. Clearly there is a major failing here. All I can say is, I wonder where he parks his car?


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:49 am 
 

I don't disagree that there was blame to go around, however, the 'true' victims are those that worked in that company had setup 401k and retirement plans, have volunteered to keep the company afloat, those people that could not have known what this guy was doing, and/or the other guy should have been preventing whatever way you want to put it.

This goes with all the major frauds, Enron, Worldcom etc., were huge amounts of fraud were commited, incompetent people didnt catch it, and now hundreds of thousands of people lost their life savings. I do have sympathy for the 'true' victims, when all they did was work hard and try to save for thier future.

So no, I am not of the mentality, that the smart ones are the ones that get millions of dollars by finding a loophole, or manipulate the system unethically, or commit fraud, regardless of the opportunity existed or not. Especially when the implications can be felt by thousands of parents just trying to feed their children and save for their future.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:25 pm 
 

Personally, I have never set stock in 401K's and whatnot. The company I work at gives me an annuity AND a pension, and I have never factored either of them into my retirement or life, simply because I am not in direct control of the the money. If it isn't in my pocket or in my fire safe, I don't own it.
It has never ceased to amaze me how people so willingly hand off their money to complete strangers and are shocked when it is misused or stolen. There are hundreds of Madoff victims ranging from charities to financial institutions that just blithely forked MILLIONS of dollars over, all eager and excited for some investment accountant to double their money in 60 days. Where the fuck do they think the profit was going to come from? Do they really think EVERYONE makes money in investments? For someone to gain, someone HAS to lose. Rule of the universe.
I'm not saying what Fucktard did to Decipher was right, but when you put your entire financial structure in the hands of someone, I don't care if it's your blood brother, there NEEDS to be some accountability, and if you as the CEO do not follow up with independent audits and the like, considering what happens with ridiculous frequency in this day and age, you need to start thinking about working behind a McDonald's counter.
On a slight tangent: If the crime for embezzlement was a mandatory 40 years in prison, it would vanish. The problem with this sort of thing has always been the lack of punishment.


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:14 pm 
 

Whale Tagger wrote:On a slight tangent: If the crime for embezzlement was a mandatory 40 years in prison, it would vanish. The problem with this sort of thing has always been the lack of punishment.


Ah come on DL, the criminal is simply misunderstood, came from an underpriveleged background, disfunctional family, a product of society and/or a minority to some degree or another. In fact, you and I are the real problem. :D


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:26 pm 
 

Oh, believe me, I know, B-man. We get punished for it every day.
America lives and breathes by the code that no one is responsible. Doesn't matter what it is, I am not responsible. I hit a kid while I was drunk? Well, I have a drinking problem due to abuse as a child, not my fault. I've had 10 jobs in the last 6 months? Well, I had an unstable home life as a kid, not my fault.
No matter how many times it is demonstrated that life is not and cannot be fair, people still try to convince themselves it is and should be.


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:38 pm 
 

If anyone is a 'victim' here, it's the poor schmucks that worked for the company at a lower level who lost their pension entitlements and their jobs.

Management deserve what they get for being so f'ckin incompetent, and the owners of the company are playing a risk/reward game, and they lost, so tough sh't. It's the jobless office worker that deserves simpathy if you are so inclined to feel simpathy for anyone.

The same can be said for all other companies who have undergone similar falls from grace. To my mind, one person is as guilty as the other, only possibly measurable by degrees of guilt. None of them deserve anything.


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:52 pm 
 

Whale Tagger wrote:Oh, believe me, I know, B-man. We get punished for it every day.
America lives and breathes by the code that no one is responsible. Doesn't matter what it is, I am not responsible. I hit a kid while I was drunk? Well, I have a drinking problem due to abuse as a child, not my fault. I've had 10 jobs in the last 6 months? Well, I had an unstable home life as a kid, not my fault.
No matter how many times it is demonstrated that life is not and cannot be fair, people still try to convince themselves it is and should be.

That is the nature of a capitalist society. Capitalism and socialism are not compatable, despite whatever ideology or fantasies naive people may have. Capitalism is by its nature predetory, and the better the predetor, the more inclined it is not to conform to society's rules. Be that an individual predetor praying on his colleagues' weaknesses, or a corporation praying on weaker companies. That is how capitalism works and America does it very well.

Socialism does not work in any society because it breeds laziness and feckless indifference. It also encourages stupidity and ignorance. Socialism and capitalism will never be compatable, and one day, your counry or mine will wake up and realise this, because both the UK and the US suffer from the same social problems to one degree or other, and we both have the same ignorant naive socialist ideologists who spend their time spouting about the rights of individuals to sit on their arse and do f'ck all.

The next evolutionary step will be the move to a purely capitalist economy, but it's unlikely to happen in anyone here's lifetime, because both our country's hamper and hold back inovation, and prey on the talented and use them to keep the lazy majority alive.

I have been to many of the world's countries, and I'm sure the more well travelled of you will concur, between the USA and the UK, we have, by far, the two laziest countries in the world. I'll pay a man the same wage regardless of what colour his skin is, or which country he comes from. In the UK I'd take an Estonian or a Pole before a British worker any day of the week, because they are more intelligent, they'll be ready to start work in the morning without fail, they won't f'ck off at 2pm because they can't be arsed with doing a full days work, and they are both polite and respectful to other workers and the general public at large.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.


Last edited by mbassoc2003 on Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:59 pm 
 

Whale Tagger wrote:Oh, believe me, I know, B-man. We get punished for it every day.
America lives and breathes by the code that no one is responsible. Doesn't matter what it is, I am not responsible. I hit a kid while I was drunk? Well, I have a drinking problem due to abuse as a child, not my fault. I've had 10 jobs in the last 6 months? Well, I had an unstable home life as a kid, not my fault.
No matter how many times it is demonstrated that life is not and cannot be fair, people still try to convince themselves it is and should be.


One thing that I see everyday is the failure of public education. I tutor math at a community college and the state school system has graduated thousands of students who have received absolutely no education in math, and I mean absolutely none.

While I hold adults responsible for all their actions these newly adult students were not responsible for the system inflicted on them and in that case I only hold them partly to blame for their lack of education. The fact that they are trying now to gain the skills that should have begun in kindergarten does them a great deal of credit.

The test of evolution is how early they realized that they needed to push themselves forward for the education that was being denied to them.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:16 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:
One thing that I see everyday is the failure of public education. I tutor math at a community college and the state school system has graduated thousands of students who have received absolutely no education in math, and I mean absolutely none.

While I hold adults responsible for all their actions these newly adult students were not responsible for the system inflicted on them and in that case I only hold them partly to blame for their lack of education. The fact that they are trying now to gain the skills that should have begun in kindergarten does them a great deal of credit.

The test of evolution is how early they realized that they needed to push themselves forward for the education that was being denied to them.

Like it or not, some parts of society are destined not to evolve. They are not capable of it. Taking large amounts of money from people who work hard and using it to try to encourage people to evolve is soacial politics gone wrong. It also wastes both talent and resorces that could be better used developing society in other ways. It is akin to throwing money into drug substitution schemes, paying for unemployed people to have SkyTV, and substituting their drink and cigarette habits.

In the UK, education is a joke. It is virtually impossible to fail an exam at any level, and degrees are given away by universities, because if they don't pass you, they don't get the funding for you from the government. So the don't fail people at all, at any level. We have, for the 27th year in a row, had the highest ever pass grades at senior highschool level. Yes. a full 91% of people in our education system are more intelligent than average.

I can tell you from personal experience as an employer that year on year, brittish children are getting thicker and thicker. We have some of the most poorly educated kids I've ever interacted with. And most of the business people I know wouldn't dream of employing someone without 5 years+ of relevant on the job experience because school leavers really are that stupid. 10 to 15 years ago most businesses would take on a school leaver or two and train them up, and within a decade, they'd be in senior management, or they'd have been head hunted out to a competitor. All that is gone. Add into the mix, the in built tendancy for british children to be lazy and unreliable, and you have a socail issue that no amount of money or 'education' will fix.

The best society can do is to encourage the strong, the intelligent and the talented, and leave the rest to wither on the vine. Stop expending resources on them because it is a complete waste of money and time.


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:21 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:I have been to many of the world's countries, and I'm sure the more well travelled of you will concur, between the USA and the UK, we have, by far, the two laziest countries in the world. I'll pay a man the same wage regardless of what colour his skin is, or which country he comes from. In the UK I'd take an Estonian or a Pole before a British worker any day of the week, because they are more intelligent, they'll be ready to start work in the morning without fail, they won't f'ck off at 2pm because they can't be arsed with doing a full days work, and they are both polite and respectful to other workers and the general public at large.


This is not my experience at all, travel to the Middle East or South America someday if you want to see a lazy society.

I will tell you a story, at one time I was in charge of the technical and engineering staff at a division of Halliburton in Calgary.  We were very good but consisted entirely of White Male Western Rednecks; it was a fun and easy place to work :)   Our retention rate was about 30%, that means about 30% of the people we hired actually turned out to be useful employees, the rest were either let go or quit (sounds low but that was what it was).  So after an audit by HR in Houston they told us we needed a little more variety in our staff (in other words no more white dudes).  So we went off to hire some diverse staff, we interviewed women, East Indians, Libyans, Pakistani's etc.  After getting our new people guess what the retention rate was!  That's right it was 30%!!


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:30 pm 
 

My experience of Saudi Arabia and the UAE is that the white western populus tends to work hard by virtue of the fact that they are in precarious fairly senior management positions with superiors in other countries always looking to crop the dead wood or underperformers out, and that the junior ranks of the companies I deal with then to be either highly capable and educated indian and pakistanis who, if they don't have work are on the next boat back to whence they came, or highly educated and motivated westerners, who are working on a purely mercenary basis, and don't want to be working in their respective native countries (usually the United Kingdom or Germany) because of the levels of tax they pay and the levels of pay they earn.

Why spend your life working hard for 100K a year giving 40% to all the a'holes who sit on their arse all day at your expense (and their dense children) when you can work for similar money, and sometimes more, and spend that 40% of your future, your family's health, and your children's education?

It's just assanine to expect talented people to prop up a useless and worthless society of stupid and downright lazy families.


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:04 pm 
 

Why?  

Because it's the right thing to do.  None of our successes are meaningful outside the context of a vibrant and supportive society.

The little old lady down the street worked her entire life, her husband is a now deceased veteran.  She needs medicine.  A minority employee who has dyslexia has raised two children on her own... her daughter (and she) works herself silly and scores high enough on standardized tests to suggest she will become a world class medical scientist.  The painter who painted the room I am in had an unfortunate bump to the back of the motorcycle she was riding and the exhaust pipe severely burned her leg.  After going through two weeks of pain medicine in four days... and with no money... a "friend" handed her meth.  A year later the woman was finally walking and off the crap.  But, she needed help getting to that point.

Most of us have family, friends, colleagues, workers and personal experiences that demonstrate that some degree of social services are advantageous to us.  I hope what what intelligent people are talking about is the level of services, type of services and the efficiency of those services that are required and needed.

Not liking taxes is one thing.  Suggesting that those who pay them are foolish and characterizing those who need support in the way that you have done so is mean spirited, callous and evidence of a greedy, selfish and malicious steak in your character.

Fortunately, your views deviate from the norm to such an extent that they are unlikely to effect policy in either of our countries much in our lifetimes.  Excepting to the extent that they lead to further restrictions on inappropriate corporate and business conduct and higher taxes to take care of those who have been stripped of their usually limited wealth by stock market scandals.

kudos to you.  Actions based upon the vile beliefs you are espousing are WHY we are all paying higher taxes.  If individuals and businesses behaved more ethically, there would be less need for all these social programs and restrictive laws.


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:47 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:
Socialism does not work in any society because it breeds laziness and feckless indifference. It also encourages stupidity and ignorance. Socialism and capitalism will never be compatable, and one day, your counry or mine will wake up and realise this, because both the UK and the US suffer from the same social problems to one degree or other, and we both have the same ignorant naive socialist ideologists who spend their time spouting about the rights of individuals to sit on their arse and do f'ck all.

The next evolutionary step will be the move to a purely capitalist economy, but it's unlikely to happen in anyone here's lifetime, because both our country's hamper and hold back inovation, and prey on the talented and use them to keep the lazy majority alive.


I think the degree to which you are wrong is monumental, but it's my understanding that in-depth socio-politcal debates rarely end well on forums such as this and are generally strongly discouraged for exactly that reason.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:32 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:you from personal experience as an employer that year on year, brittish children are getting thicker and thicker.


But,by God, have you seen the way their fingers move when they text each other!? Perhaps the young are just learning different skills now :D  8O

(FWIW I personally think that the young in the UK are less motivated than they were 5 or 10 years ago, rather than stupider - generally though the cream rises to the top (Though I'm sure Ian would say the scum floats to the top as well!))


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:50 pm 
 

mordrin wrote:
I think the degree to which you are wrong is monumental, but it's my understanding that in-depth socio-politcal debates rarely end well on forums such as this and are generally strongly discouraged for exactly that reason.


Agreed that the ignorance being spouted in this thread is monumentally wrong.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:25 am 
 

Pipswich wrote:Not liking taxes is one thing.  Suggesting that those who pay them are foolish and characterizing those who need support in the way that you have done so is mean spirited, callous and evidence of a greedy, selfish and malicious steak in your character.

I have nothing against taxes. It's what pays for our libraries, our subsidised further education, our armed forces (of which my family has had many generations of experience), and our health service. I also agree that those who spend their lives working and contributing to society should have a right to a comfortable and safe retirement.

I cannot speek wisely of the work ethic or demographic of the US, but what you seem to be completely ignorant of is how much of everything we work for goes to pay for the majority of the population to sit on their arse, and smoke, drink and watch TV. Whether that's long term unemployed, or the general cost to every industry of the failure of the white working class to do their work, turn up for work, or complete their work on time, it all comes out of the tax paying hard working peoples' pockets.

You cannot assume that all the UK population are little old ladies at the end of a working life, and hand out money to all of them on that basis. Nor can you treat all workers like they are little old ladies trying their hardest to work at something their old bones and minds are stuggling with. That is simply pathetic.

I ask you this...
Do you work as hard as you can for your family and your household?
Does that make you a good employee, or a good employer?
If so, is it not in any way reasonable to expect the same from those who work around you? Those you employ or supervise? Those who employ you?


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