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Post Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:36 am 
 

Zenopus wrote:I wrote a blog post about the French translation of Holmes, which according to one report was included English-language Holmes sets sold in France:

http://zenopusarchives.blogspot.com/201 ... perbe.html


Thanks for sharing. We didn't found serious informations about its provenance...
The translation of the monster names are very funny  :D
There are some strange things, in the beginning : "3 dés à dix faces" -3D10- instead of "3 dés à six faces" -3D6- for the characteristics. But is says also that 18 is the maximum for 3 dices.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:53 am 
 

We recently have a short discussion about this translation on a French forum. If you can read French:
http://dnd.ezael.net/viewtopic.php?f=113&t=3713&start=0

Our thoughts was that it was comissionned by "les Relais Descartes" and printed professionnally to be added in Holmes then in Moldway boxed sets before the official French translation in the end of 1982. Perhaps in 80-81. This translation was restricted to Parisian stores.


Adventures in Austerion : a fantasy RPG, with boardgame mechanisms and modular battlemap. By Guillaume Tavernier and Géraud G.

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Post Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:05 pm 
 

Thanks for the info. I used Google Translate to read those pages (not perfect, but understandable).

A few very general questions:

Printing location on the last page - Sannois or Sannoie? Snorri mentioned "Sannoie" is his post on OD&D74, but one of the Eazel posts mentions "Sannois", and Google gives far more hits for a place named "Sannois".

Snorri mentioned Jeux Descartes and you mentioned "les Relais Descartes". Are those a game publisher ("Descartes Games" in English) and a game store ("The Descartes Relay")? There's a brief bit on Wikipedia about Jeux Descartes.

I looked more closely, and the translation is closer to the 2nd edition (Nov 1978) than the 3rd edition (Dec 1979) of the Holmes rulebook.


Zenopus Archives website & blog: Exploring the Underworld of Holmes Basic D&D. Holmes Ref: Reference Sheets for Holmes Basic Referees, also compatible with OD&D plus the Greyhawk supplement

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:49 am 
 

Yes, the city is Sannois, near Paris.

You're right about Descartes and Relais Descartes. Actually, it exists stores Descartes and stores Relais Descartes. The first ones are stores own by Descartes while the other ones are only distributors of Descartes products (and they sell other publishers as well).


Adventures in Austerion : a fantasy RPG, with boardgame mechanisms and modular battlemap. By Guillaume Tavernier and Géraud G.

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Post Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:11 am 
 

lokiwookie wrote:Yes, the city is Sannois, near Paris.

You're right about Descartes and Relais Descartes. Actually, it exists stores Descartes and stores Relais Descartes. The first ones are stores own by Descartes while the other ones are only distributors of Descartes products (and they sell other publishers as well).


Thanks again. Was Descartes the first game store in France selling D&D?
Was Jeux Descartes based out of Sannois, or just the printer that printed that translation?

Another bit of trivia related to the French translations of Basic D&D was posted on DF recently by paleologos. The French B3 ("Le palais de la Princesse Argenta") has three pieces of artwork by Darlene not found in the U.S. version. See here for the scans.


Zenopus Archives website & blog: Exploring the Underworld of Holmes Basic D&D. Holmes Ref: Reference Sheets for Holmes Basic Referees, also compatible with OD&D plus the Greyhawk supplement

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Post Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:44 am 
 

>>  Was Descartes the first game store in France selling D&D?

Perhaps l'Oeuf Cube was. One of the oldest RPG store. I am not parisian, but I can ask if you need the information.

>> Was Jeux Descartes based out of Sannois, or just the printer that printed that translation?

Second answer.

>> Another bit of trivia related to the French translations of Basic D&D was posted on DF recently by paleologos. The French B3 ("Le palais de la Princesse Argenta") has three pieces of artwork by Darlene not found in the U.S. version.

Le_Rahib would be more competent to answer about these pieces of art. IIRC, B2 module and few others have pieces that are not in US version. But I am not sure at all.


Adventures in Austerion : a fantasy RPG, with boardgame mechanisms and modular battlemap. By Guillaume Tavernier and Géraud G.

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Post Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:10 pm 
 

lokiwookie wrote:>>  Was Descartes the first game store in France selling D&D?

Perhaps l'Oeuf Cube was. One of the oldest RPG store. I am not parisian, but I can ask if you need the information.



Thanks again! No need for further information on the first game store - I was just trying to get a sense of the history behind the translation.

I've made a page on my website to summarize the information:
French translation of the Blue Book


Zenopus Archives website & blog: Exploring the Underworld of Holmes Basic D&D. Holmes Ref: Reference Sheets for Holmes Basic Referees, also compatible with OD&D plus the Greyhawk supplement

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:43 am 
 

Good work. Nice to see that some English-speakers can be interested in French (and even non-English) D&D material :)


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:01 pm 
 

I got something in a recent auction.  
** expired/removed eBay auction **
 It was French translations of B1 and Holmes in a UK Basic set.  They are the two booklets that are mentioned in the auction description.  I've talked to zenopus about it.  I'll see if he can post a scan.  It's a photocopy of a French version of Holmes with the Sutherland Dragon cover, titled "Donjons & Dragons" and has no TSR logo.  Anybody know if there was published French Holmes with the Sutherland cover, or is this an early version of the translation discussed in this thread?  Zenopus say's the translation is identical.  It is typed and arranged to be printed double sided, but my copy is single sided.  All pages are there.

LB

  

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:17 pm 
 

Does the seller know anything about it?

Foul

  

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:59 pm 
 

FoulFoot wrote in French basic set.:Does the seller know anything about it?

Foul

Nope, but I could tell they were French from all the cigarette smoke.  

LB

  


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:04 pm 
 

Screenshots of the newly discovered French translation (which I'm calling Donjons #1) from the scans sent to me by Lurker Below.

Cover:

Image
Clearly a photocopy, but interesting because the cover on the title is changed to "Donjons & Dragons", and it has the TSR logo etc removed from the bottom. I wonder whether they had access to an original image for layout, or simply did some cutting and pasting to remove these and add the "Donjons & Dragons"?

Table of Contents (pg 1 of 2):
Image

First page:
Image

Compare with the first page of the previously discovered version, which I'll call Donjons #2 (the pdf I have of this has no cover):
Image


The translation in each is the same. My feeling is the newly discovered one is the earlier version as it's lacking the layout of the other. #1 is much longer (71 pages, single column) than #2 (32 pages, double column). There are no illustrations in either, except that Donjons #1 has a rough alignment table missing from Donjons #2.


Zenopus Archives website & blog: Exploring the Underworld of Holmes Basic D&D. Holmes Ref: Reference Sheets for Holmes Basic Referees, also compatible with OD&D plus the Greyhawk supplement

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:36 pm 
 

Screenshot of the first page of the French translation of the monochrome B1. This I'd never seen before in any form.

Image


Zenopus Archives website & blog: Exploring the Underworld of Holmes Basic D&D. Holmes Ref: Reference Sheets for Holmes Basic Referees, also compatible with OD&D plus the Greyhawk supplement

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:51 pm 
 

That is very interesting, especially the B1 translation.

I guess that the rules' translation was the "prepub" version, before the final print done by Descartes. Perhaps one of the translator copies.

B1 was never translated so this is the very nice find.
Any information about the translator?

Is it possible to get a full scan? I know it is very long  :oops:


Adventures in Austerion : a fantasy RPG, with boardgame mechanisms and modular battlemap. By Guillaume Tavernier and Géraud G.

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:32 am 
 

well, great findings! this reminds me that when i was kid there was an italian "bootleg" version of the translation of the immortal set going around among the players... it does look like the scans you have just posted!

ciaooo


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