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wavemotion
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:24 pm

bbarsh wrote:Also, odd that no Judges Guild items made the top 200.

Of the 130 or so JG products we have listed only 4 have enough individual ratings to be ranked (many others have ratings from some users but not enough to give it a rank).

#215 The Caverns of Thracia
#300 City State of the Invincible Overlord
#644 Dark Tower
#810 The First Fantasy Campaign

Some of what hurts JG items is that they don't have a large number of ratings yet... so the Bayesian ranking tends to push them down a bit. But I suspect those four above plus a slew more will rise as time goes on. Those four above are partially ranked thanks to the efforts of thoughtful Acaeum members who have taken the time to put in ratings.

-Dave

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:28 pm

Is it possible to give membership percentages by country?
That is not a voting pattern I would expect from a US dominant membership.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

wavemotion
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:38 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote:Is it possible to give membership percentages by country?

Our analytics don't tell me which are members and which are not (though I can probably dig that up given some help from the devs - I'm just one of the ignorant 'Geeks) but for a rough percentage you can use the # of visitors we had to RPG Geek only (does not include Board Game Geek) for the 5 month period starting 1/1/2010:

Code:

1.  United States     127,098
2.  United Kingdom     26,172
3.  Canada             12,864
4.  Germany             9,482
5.  France              7,705
6.  Spain               6,192
7.  Australia           6,091
8.  Belgium             4,152
9.  Italy               3,773
10. Sweden              3,727

There are only 6 Acaeum members that I know of on RPG Geek... though only 4 took advantage of the free Acaeum microbadge I had designed to help promote this fantastic site (http://rpg.geekdo.com/microbadge/11519 - if anyone wants one, just PM me your username)

-Dave

Kingofpain89
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:12 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote:No. It's what one whole group of people like vs. another.

And groups are made up of individuals. If you take a group of people and run the poll "Who likes Dragonlance". Lets say 72% of them vote yea on Dragonlance, that doesnt mean that the entire group likes Dragonlance. Saying so would be a flat out misinterpretation of the findings.

mbassoc2003 wrote:It is the opinion of the group as a whole, and that group is a reflection of the demographic that populates the site.

mbassoc2003 wrote:It would appear to be the culmination of the combined wisdome of that whole community, and as such it can only read as a reflection of that community. That community as a whole believes I6 to be the second most significant D&D product of all time.

OK, so the community over at RPG Geek thinks that I6 is a pretty awesome, significant module. So what? Exactly how does that tie into your perceived notion that no one of significant intelligence spends time on that site? Where do you come up with this shit?

mbassoc2003 wrote:ignorant underclasses.
Just don't try to encourage the intelligent side of the RPG community to visit the site
It seperates those we don't want to know about or deal with in life from the rest of the community online, and keeps them out of the way

You must be one of them there "Elitist gamers" I've heard so much about. :lol:

mbassoc2003 wrote:That is not a voting pattern I would expect from a US dominant membership.

That's right....us dum Americans wouldnt know nuthin' bout no Warhammer or Call of Kuthooloo. We're too stupid to unnerstand how to play those games.

Or did I miss your point entirely? I guess it's possible since I am a bit clouded by anger at this juncture. If I've gotten it wrong, please enlighten me.

You don't like your job, you don't strike. You go in every day and do it really half-assed. That's the American way. - Homer Simpson

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:37 pm

Kingofpain89 wrote:Or did I miss your point entirely? I guess it's possible since I am a bit clouded by anger at this juncture. If I've gotten it wrong, please enlighten me.

I would have expected the RPG community as a whole to have had a greater leaning towards D&D in general, and I would have expected the leaning towards D&D and the works of the other FRPG authors of that develpment era to have had a greater standing in the rankings. I would have expected Cthulhu and Warhammer to hold greater weight outside of the US, because much of the D&D influence at the time did not get conferred over to Europe. JG was not a big thing over here, and in a lot of areas Dragon and Dungeon were not available in their early years. By comparison, Cthulhu and Warhammer were much lauded and quite well taken up by the community, and in light of the fact that D&D did not form as much of UK kid's gaming upbringing as it did with US kids, Cthulhu and Warhammer were proportionately just as influentail as D&D was during the 80's.

As such, if a poll of RPG gamers were asked what they considered to be the most influential products of the past 30 years, and the poll heavily favoured Cthulhu and Warhammer over D&D and Runequest, I would expect that poll to be influenced by the lower impact of D&D as you move away from the US, and also by age, defering toward voters in their early to mid thirties (ie the Cthulhu/Warhammer baby boomers).

That was most deffinately not a US attack, but I suppose without a full explanation it could be assumed to have been one. My bad.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

faro
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:54 pm

wavemotion wrote:Call of Cthulhu is heavily represented as is Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.

*nods* That's what I'd've expected; not just for the fanboi-ish aspects to voting (per IMDB, again) but also that there /is/ a considerable amount of good, quality material for both. Rather good to see that, and the 25+ years of proven popularity reflected in /fewer/ "top 100" places for xD&D as part of a wider, richer RPG tapestry where "old school" has a rather broader sweep than is usual given/promoted.

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7.4 TAKING THE GAME SERIOUSLY: Don't"

faro
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:57 pm

wavemotion wrote:

Code:

1.  United States     127,098
2.  United Kingdom     26,172
3.  Canada             12,864
4.  Germany             9,482
5.  France              7,705
6.  Spain               6,192
7.  Australia           6,091
8.  Belgium             4,152
9.  Italy               3,773
10. Sweden              3,727

There are only 6 Acaeum members that I know of on RPG Geek

That got a chuckle in a positive way, Dave. RPGing ain't dead yet.

"7.3 ORGANIZING THE PARTY: Always have a keg, even if it's BYOB...
7.4 TAKING THE GAME SERIOUSLY: Don't"

ashmire13
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:59 pm

6 out of around 200,000 RPG Geek members is pretty good... :wink:

Rolls a '3'

"Did I hit.....?"

wavemotion
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:37 pm

ashmire13 wrote:6 out of around 200,000 RPG Geek members is pretty good...

Heh! Not even close. Those numbers are visitors to the RPG Geek site - most are unregistered and not members (just people browsing or researching an RPG or are interested but not enough to sign up). As for membership - it's not an easy tell since BGG accounts, RPGG accounts and soon VGG accounts work across the board. There are over 320,000 members for the site - but the vast majority stay over on the boardgame side. From what I've gleaned, RPGG is about 1/50th the size of BGG (in terms of traffic, donations, etc.) and the gap closes slowly every month (we were 1/80th the size after 3 months). Given that, I'd say we are roughly 6500 members strong on the RPG side and climbing. Only registered members can add files, track their collections, trade/sell items and rate items (which contributes to the rankings).

So 6 out of 6500 is much more significant!

-Dave

Badmike
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:30 pm

wavemotion wrote:
In the top 100:

#1 Delta Green: Countdown (CoC)
#2 Delta Green (CoC/D20 edition)
#3 Call of Cthulhu (6th Edition)
#4 Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (1st Edition) (WFRP)
#6 Call of Cthulhu (5th Edition)
#8 Shadows over BÃ¶genhafen (WFRP)
#10 The Complete Masks of Nyarlathotep (CoC)
#13 Death on the Reik (WFRP)
#14 Beyond the Mountains of Madness (CoC)
#15 Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay Core Set (Core Set 3rd Edition)
#18 Call of Cthulhu (3rd Edition)
#22 Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (2nd Edition)
#24 Marienburg: Sold down the River (WFRP)
#30 Call of Cthulhu (1st Edition)
#32 Call of Cthulhu (4th Edition)
#40 Escape from Innsmouth (CoC)
#44 Warhammer Adventure (WFRP)
#45 The Enemy Within (WFRP)
#46 Arkham: Unveiling the Legend-Haunted City (CoC)
#48 Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness (WFRP)
#57 Cults of Prax (Runequest)
#64 Tome of Salvation (WFRP)
#65 Tome of Corruption (WFRP)
#70 Delta Green: Eyes Only (CoC)
#71 Horror on the Orient Express (CoC)
#88 The Golden Dawn (CoC)
#94 Griffin Mountain (Runequest)
#96 RuneQuest (2nd Edition)
#97 Realm of Chaos: The Lost and the Damned (WFRP)
#98 Tatters of the King (CoC)

Call of Cthulhu is heavily represented as is Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. Runequest is less represented having only 3 entries.

-Dave

Really interesting list Dave!

I would say the preponderance of CoC, Warhammer and RQ on the list shows a pretty obvious agenda, and these rankings are not indicative of anything wider than the people registered on the Geek who bother to rate items. Delta Green, for example, is pretty cult (basically, it's X-Files for CoC) and I'd say 9 out of 10 gamers wouldn't have a clue what it was if you brought it up at your FLGS (not to mention, I have everything on that list you posted, and there is no way Delta Green is the best RPG there....Masks or Griffin Mtn blow it away completely). Still, some really interesting stuff there!

Mike B.

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Bracton
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Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:44 pm

Kingofpain89 wrote:if you are an attorney, astrophysicist, or flip burgers at McDonalds.

I've been two of the three. And I've never worked at McDonalds. :wink:

"Parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus."

deimos3428
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Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:25 am

wavemotion wrote:I did this six months ago and it was met with mixed reaction (but no death threats!) so I'll do it again now that we've got over 6000 items with ratings. We are approaching our first year anniversary at RPG Geek and I'm doing some database dumps for a stats report I'm working on. I dumped the top 200 RPG Items and filtered on the D&D and AD&D 1e material and here is how it currently shakes out as of July 1, 2010:

It's interesting, but I don't think you can take away a lot of meaning from such a list. In any event, there do seem to be some problems when sanity checking the data.

As an example, "Night's Dark Terror" is rating is above the 1E DMG. I realize that the ratings are somewhat subjective -- but no way. Something is going on there to skew that result considerably as the module is punching far above its weight.

Also, when comparing old school products to more recent ones you're dealing with completely different demographics. I'd love to see a bar graph or two showing ratings by age bracket, for example. (I'll further hypothesize that teenagers will be far more polar in their ratings than older individuals.)

FormCritic
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Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:40 am

Badmike wrote:Delta Green, for example, is pretty cult (basically, it's X-Files for CoC) and I'd say 9 out of 10 gamers wouldn't have a clue what it was if you brought it up at your FLGS

9 out of 10 is being generous, Mike. That still implies 10% would have any idea what Delta Green is.

My estimate would be closer to 1%...and you'd have to interview the full 100 to get that last one who's heard of it. Delta Green is a niche of a niche.

Probably different by region.

I have never seen a CoC game played. I have never held a CoC discussion with a gamer anywhere but on the Acaeum. I don't know anyone (other than online friends) who owns a copy of CoC.

(Although...I guess I must have walked past a CoC game in progress at PaizoCon. There were a number of them on the convention program.)

It's interesting to read about the influence of non-TSR RPG's in Europe. I can see Warhammer FRP in Europe, given how deeply Games Workshop miniatures wargames have penetrated in the US. CoC is a bit of a surprise.

From the provincial view of an American in the Pacific Northwest there were two types of role-playing games published:

1) Dungeons and Dragons

2) Failed RPG concepts.

Obviously, that's wrong, since Chaosium has stayed in business...but still...

"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

Johnson
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Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:12 am

FormCritic wrote:9 out of 10 is being generous, Mike. That still implies 10% would have any idea what Delta Green is.

My estimate would be closer to 1%...and you'd have to interview the full 100 to get that last one who's heard of it. Delta Green is a niche of a niche.

Probably different by region.

Hi,

yep, CoC is a lot more popular in Europe, as are WW items. Delta Green is well-known as a very popular product.

I was surprised at GC Indy just how TSR/D&D-centred the market is there. Saying that, CoC has its own Conventions in the USA, so I guess "serious" players don't bother with GC.

Cheers,
malc

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Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:29 am

Kingofpain89 wrote:Would you please get the fuck off of your high horse and stop assuming that the majority of the people that post on this site have the same narrow, limited view of how things should be that you do?

Shhhh, don't spoil it. Little Lord Fauntleroy's rants against the unwashed peasantry are hilariously entertaining, not unlike Tea Party activity over here. Or Marie Antoinette.

Doug Williams
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Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:50 am

Here in Tennessee, my old gaming group played a number of RPGs. Of course, (A)D&D was the first, and most heavily played. We didn't just stick with D&D though. I remember playing a good bit of Gamma World, some Star Frontiers, Top Secret, Champions, Traveller, and even a game or two of CoC.

wavemotion
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Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:04 am

lawrenson wrote:Delta Green is well-known as a very popular product.

It's fairly well known in the Boston area as well. There is a reason this is selling for between $110 and $150 - and not by collectors. Nobody is collecting a mass produced softcover from 1999 (as they might for a 1974 box set) - they are paying this crazy price time and time again to read and play it. In my opinion there is no other RPG book that can match the oozing style and clear, sharp writing of Delta Green / Countdown. Nothing TSR wrote can match it from a technical standpoint (though you may not care for the paranormal subject matter) In terms of clear, consistent and superb presentation - Rules Cyclopedia can at least be mentioned as a distant runner up. In short, Delta Green is crazy good and should be given props even if you don't care for the subject matter. Every RPG writer and editor should have a copy on their shelf to see one fantastic example of how it's done.

This is obviously my opinion.

FormCritic wrote:I have never seen a CoC game played. I have never held a CoC discussion with a gamer anywhere but on the Acaeum. I don't know anyone (other than online friends) who owns a copy of CoC.

It's very popular here... TotalCon sees games of it being played almost around the clock and it's all over the place at Connecticon. Most of my boardgaming friends who dabble in RPGs own a copy. Amongst the 500 or so gamers that attend my Unity Games event, CoC is probably 2nd only to D&D in terms of popularity (with White Wolf games coming in 3rd). Of the 30 or so RPG related podcasts I listen to, about half have references to and discussion about CoC at least on a semi-regular basis. These podcasters are generally US based. My local Borders carries CoC as well as all the hobby shops in a 50 mile radius. Then again, the Boston and surrounding areas (including Providence, RI and southern NH) are a hotbed of college activity and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a board/RPG gamer.

-Dave

Badmike
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Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:28 am

wavemotion wrote:It's very popular here... TotalCon sees games of it being played almost around the clock and it's all over the place at Connecticon. Most of my boardgaming friends who dabble in RPGs own a copy. Amongst the 500 or so gamers that attend my Unity Games event, CoC is probably 2nd only to D&D in terms of popularity (with White Wolf games coming in 3rd). Of the 30 or so RPG related podcasts I listen to, about half have references to and discussion about CoC at least on a semi-regular basis. These podcasters are generally US based. My local Borders carries CoC as well as all the hobby shops in a 50 mile radius. Then again, the Boston and surrounding areas (including Providence, RI and southern NH) are a hotbed of college activity and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a board/RPG gamer.

-Dave

Maybe it's an East coast thing? Besides myself and one other guy, I"ve never actually seen CoC played in Texas. Great game, though.

The Delta Green books are extraordinarily well written, although I think about half of Countdown is pure crap (the info on the Fate, aka the invincible bad guys who are as powerful as Cthulhu himself). On a presentation standpoint alone they are beautiful books.

However, for the Delta Green, as Mark said, it's far too niche to be showing up #1 and #2 on the list. It's as if everyone who ever purchased a copy got online and gave it props....when, say, D&D gamers outnumber Delta Green owners by 100000 to 1, and any half-hearted voting effort among the D&D faithful should have something like B2 up by a mile.

I don't like the idea of including different editions for a game like CoC, either. There isn't enough difference to matter between, say, 5th and 6th edition Coc rules to bother. It's nothing like the huge gap that the different editions of D&D have, for example. Doing away with the different edition choices it's obvious CoC would be #1 with a bullet on that list.

As Deimos says, it's a fun list for discussion, but I don't think you can take a lot out of it except that CoC, Warhammer and RQ have some REALLY loyal fans.....

Mike B.

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