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Post Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:17 am 
 

That's not a charity - it's a scam.

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Post Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:08 am 
 

Where are all those thousands of Haitian Refugees going?

http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/st ... y=YTALBANY

Most of them are coming to the USA on our Aid Transport Planes and Ships.

Can the USA continue to be the only country in the world that will take in anyone and everyone with troubles?
Because most people in the USA think only in the NOW, not in the future and they fail to know the past as well.
Yes, the Haitians need help NOW, not ten years from now.
But then a few years ago after a series of FOUR major Hurricanes in one terrible season wiped out much of the coastal towns they were desperate then too.
But Haiti has had major weather troubles for hundreds of years, not just a few years ago.
But the damage caused by the hurricanes is getting worse each year… WHY is that?

Haiti did not become one of the poorest countries in the world overnight.
Haiti has been exceedingly poor since they gained independence and before then too. They have been the single poorest nation in this hemisphere for decades, and one of the poorest nations in the world for decades, ten years ago, they needed help then too, and 20 and 30 and 40 years ago too.

http://www.wunderground.com/education/haiti.asp

http://www.pih.org/inforesources/news/H ... _2008.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... ane-season

Haiti is hammered by several Hurricanes each season, killing hundreds and even thousands each year.

And WHY do hurricanes so devastate the country?
One of the main reasons is that as a strikingly poor nation, wood was the only viable source of fuel for the masses.
And now they have no more forest left, as of 20 years ago, they had only 25% of the original forest left and 5 years ago the remaining forest coverage was down to 1.8%.....

What does that have to do with flooding?
ALL of the rainwater from even the smallest of storms is swept from the mountains to the valleys and shorelines.
There are no trees or forest floor covered with normal forest debris to stop it, or even slow it down enough for some of the rainwater to seep into the ground.
This lack of forest in the mountains and other parts of the country is causing constant flooding after storms, which brings on other problems too, like malaria, dysentery and other such diseases.
Crops fail; causing widespread hunger and many times… mass starvation.

Haiti's many troubles did not start with this most recent disaster... and they will not end with it either.

Haiti is also one of the most HIV infected countries in the world, certainly the most infected (per capita) in this hemisphere.


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Last edited by Gnat the Beggar on Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
  

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Post Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:12 am 
 

Prufrock wrote:That's not a charity - it's a scam.

martin


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Post Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:17 am 
 

Gnat the Beggar wrote:Can the USA continue to be the only country in the world that will take in anyone and everyone with troubles?


No


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Post Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:18 am 
 

Gnat the Beggar wrote:Where are all those thousands of Haitian Refugees going?

http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/st ... y=YTALBANY

Most of them are coming to the USA on our Aid Transport Planes and Ships.

Can the USA continue to be the only country in the world that will take in anyone and everyone with troubles?
Because most people in the USA think only in the NOW, not in the future and they fail to know the past as well.
Yes, the Haitians need help NOW, not ten years from now.
But then a few years ago after a series of FOUR major Hurricanes in one terrible season wiped out much of the coastal towns they were desperate then too.
But Haiti has had major weather troubles for hundreds of years, not just a few years ago.
But the damage caused by the hurricanes is getting worse each year… WHY is that?

Haiti did not become one of the poorest countries in the world overnight.
Haiti has been exceedingly poor since they gained independence and before then too. They have been the single poorest nation in this hemisphere for decades, and one of the poorest nations in the world for decades, ten years ago, they needed help then too, and 20 and 30 and 40 years ago too.

http://www.wunderground.com/education/haiti.asp

http://www.pih.org/inforesources/news/H ... _2008.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... ane-season

Haiti is hammered by several Hurricanes each season, killing hundreds and even thousands each year.

And WHY do hurricanes so devastate the country?
One of the main reasons is that as a strikingly poor nation, wood was the only viable source of fuel for the masses.
And now they have no more forest left, as of 20 years ago, they had only 25% of the original forest left and 5 years ago the remaining forest coverage was down to 1.8%.....

What does that have to do with flooding?
ALL of the rainwater from even the smallest of storms is swept from the mountains to the valleys and shorelines.
There are no trees or forest floor covered with normal forest debris to stop it, or even slow it down enough for some of the rainwater to seep into the ground.
This lack of forest in the mountains and other parts of the country is causing constant flooding after storms, which brings on other problems too, like malaria, dysentery and other such diseases.
Crops fail; causing widespread hunger and many times… mass starvation.

Haiti's many troubles did not start with this most recent disaster... and they will not end with it either.

Haiti is also one of the most HIV infected countries in the world, certainly the most infected (per capita) in this hemisphere.


Haiti is truly a hell on earth, even before the earthquakes. I hope the US takes in as many as they can; most Haitians I have personally met are deliriously happy to be the US, don't bitch and moan about crap, and work hard.
The sad thing is Haiti will be screwed up by the UN as it tries to help, billions of dollars will be pumped into the country only to be stolen, misusued or pissed away by the corrupt Haitian government (and corrupt UN officials), and in ten years they will still be living in a crudely constructed tent city waiting for aid.....
Hopefully nations around the world will take in as many as they can get, and once they have worked hard and are educated and wealthy, they can go back to their home someday and begin transforming it.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:19 am 
 

Gnat- Well, it's true we can only let so many people in.  We're already broke and people already here have no jobs as it is.  But it's good to help where we can.

I read someplace that INS is clearing Haitian children orphaned by the quake to be brought over and fast tracked to be available for adoption in the US.  Not sure on details, but I think that's a nice idea.


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Post Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:23 am 
 

And aid agencies who know the "orphan" issue are asking that these fast-track adoptions be stopped.

In many cases there are families frantically looking for their children and children desperate to find their families.  It is not at all clear which ones are really orphans.

Moving too fast on bringing people to the US is a mistake.


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Post Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:27 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:And aid agencies who know the "orphan" issue are asking that these fast-track adoptions be stopped.

In many cases there are families frantically looking for their children and children desperate to find their families.  It is not at all clear which ones are really orphans.

Moving too fast on bringing people to the US is a mistake.


Mark;

I may be wrong but from what I understand the "fast tracked" adoptions were for the Haitian children who were already in orphanages in Haiti, or who were on adoption lists already, not for those who have only been parentless since the earthquake. If I'm wrong I agree with you.....
The US has also halted all deportations of Haitians here illegally, which seems a prudent thing to do given the circumstances.

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Post Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:47 am 
 

Collection of Haitian images from the CRYPTOME web site.

WARNING: Graphic photos of death and destruction

http://cryptome.org/info/haiti-quake/haiti-quake-01.htm


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Post Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:24 am 
 

Badmike wrote:
Mark;

I may be wrong but from what I understand the "fast tracked" adoptions were for the Haitian children who were already in orphanages in Haiti, or who were on adoption lists already, not for those who have only been parentless since the earthquake. If I'm wrong I agree with you.....
The US has also halted all deportations of Haitians here illegally, which seems a prudent thing to do given the circumstances.

Mike B.


There was a move on to ship kids to the US, where altruistic people want to help out by adopting.  As I understand, adoptions that were on track before the quake are continuing.


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Post Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:28 am 
 

Has anyone noticed that teleportation devices and automatic butt wipers still do not exist even though a Democrat is now in office?

Given the criticism of George Bush for only instantly reacting to Hurricane Katrina, one would have expected Obama to parachute over Haiti loaded down with water bottles and medical supplies one minute after the quake.


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Post Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:47 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:automatic butt wipers still do not exist even though a Democrat is now in office?


Speak for yourself. I received my automatic butt-wiper robot in the mail shortly after last year's inauguration. You should contact the customer service department if you didn't get yours yet - just shout very loudly into a toilet bowl.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:55 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:
There was a move on to ship kids to the US, where altruistic people want to help out by adopting.  As I understand, adoptions that were on track before the quake are continuing.


Some idiot state governor flies in and out with a few children and at the same time keeps a planeload of peditricians from landing (at least according to cnn).

As far as international contributors I also read on the newsfeed that the Saudi's have not contributed a dime.

What I don't understand is why not send every helicopter they could get there. The tactical use of helicopters that was so attrocious during the Vietnam war seems perfect for setting up aid and security stations in hard to reach areas. They don't even need to land, just hover and drop of men and supplies. Large helicopter transports can move construction vehicles, what about mobile aid stations?

I also haven't seen anything on the news about the Dominican Republic. It's the same island. 10s of thousands of dead on one side of the island, what happened on the other?

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:11 pm 
 

Sad thing is, most of this could have been avoided had the Hatians been allowed to utilise their own resources instead of having their sovreignty bound by economic chains. They have not only oil, but gold and silver plus other resources available. They just aren't allowed to use it, just like many sites in the U.S. are closed off or given over to foreign powers. The revenues from such things could have turned them into a 2nd or even 1st world nation with buildings which could have withstood this.

But, it's always been about economics and control of those considered 'lesser evolved'. He who makes the money, makes the rules. Haiti will be assimilated.

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Post Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:22 pm 
 

Gnat the Beggar wrote: they have no more forest left, as of 20 years ago, they had only 25% of the original forest left and 5 years ago the remaining forest coverage was down to 1.8%.....


I heard that Haiti became indebted to French companies, & got out of it by allowing the total removal of lumber. You mentioned to effects of this on flooding, but I wonder about the physics of it pertaining to earthquakes.

There is an ancient technique for building in earthquake-prone regions, involving free-standing pillars to absorb the vibrations. Would trees have a similar effect, especially millions of trees over a large area?

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:30 pm 
 

As for the adoption idea, yeah, seems there's alot to work out there.  All the same, l think it's an idea with its heart in the right place.

I saw how they were still pulling some people alive out of buildings yesterday, and that's heartening.  As supplies start to get in and order gets restored maybe the death toll will go down at least by some small number as people thought lost get accounted for.  That's something to hope for at least.


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Post Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:33 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:Has anyone noticed that teleportation devices and automatic butt wipers still do not exist even though a Democrat is now in office?

Given the criticism of George Bush for only instantly reacting to Hurricane Katrina, one would have expected Obama to parachute over Haiti loaded down with water bottles and medical supplies one minute after the quake.


Getting supplies to a US city within a week should be easy.  Getting them to an island country that's port was ruined and most roads bottle necked due to collapsed buildings is a bit harder.  Don't compare the two.
W now is latched onto Clinton for the humanitarian aid his father used to do with Clinton.  Maybe it'll help for the history books.

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Post Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:20 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:I also haven't seen anything on the news about the Dominican Republic. It's the same island. 10s of thousands of dead on one side of the island, what happened on the other?


From what I have read on MSNBC, the quake and all of the aftershocks were localized to the Haitian side of the island.  Apparently the Caribbean Plate and the North American Plate come together near Port-au-Prince and the fault line goes right through that part of the island.  The majority of the aftershocks occurred to the west of the city.  People in the Dominican Republic may not have even felt even a tremor.


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