Just testing the water here rather than starting  a new thread.
As I am sure many of you are aware from other sites there is currently a huge furore going on in the gaming community at large concerning the behaviour of several known figures in the hobby, as well as the perhaps questionable actions of at least one well known company.
My question is, should we be discussing this here? I realise that  this is a collector's community but I can see how this is relevant to us.(I can also see how this might be a little taboo here, but my gut feeling is that we should not just ignore this and hope it goes away).
Like many,I have my own opinions on all of this, but this is my first public post, as I say, to test the water.
Carl

gyg wrote in Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread:Just testing the water here rather than starting  a new thread.
As I am sure many of you are aware from other sites there is currently a huge furore going on in the gaming community at large concerning the behaviour of several known figures in the hobby, as well as the perhaps questionable actions of at least one well known company.
My question is, should we be discussing this here? I realise that  this is a collector's community but I can see how this is relevant to us.(I can also see how this might be a little taboo here, but my gut feeling is that we should not just ignore this and hope it goes away).
Like many,I have my own opinions on all of this, but this is my first public post, as I say, to test the water.
Carl

I recommend you start a new thread, but I also recommend you set a parameter or two.  If the topic gets crazy and out of bounds, Foulfoot can shut it down or deal with offenders individually.

These forums pride themselves on being more mature than other gaming threads.  If that's the case, I think we can handle difficult topics related to gaming.  These forums usually avoid topics like abortion, homosexuality, religion, and politics.  In observing other sites conversations/debates about this kind of issue, it usually devolves into a trial with people declaring their beliefs/rationales/examples of innocence or guilt.  This results into a person(s) in question being guilty or innocent by show of support or non-support, which is not proof of guilt or innocence.  Just ask Matt Lauer, Harvey Weinstein, or Donald T.....no, no, don't ask him.  This kind of discussion is an exercise in futility.  For one thing, no one changes their mind; their views are simply hardened.  Avoiding difficult issues/conflicts is also immature and manipulative.  We can do better.

I recommend the best approach is simply show what you are seeing and hearing so everyone can make up their own mind on their own time.  Post links, images, whatever.  Other people can share additional information sources if they want.  Make it an information sharing thread.  If people are itching to get in a fight, they can join those "debates" and have at it.  If you know/see something related to gaming and the gaming community that you think warrants observation, then show and tell.  The main parameter I would set is to request that people avoid statements of judgment or support, and if anyone makes such statements, to recommend everyone just let it go.  A person's innocence or guilt is not up to this, or any, community.  Anyone who tries to make it that is likely attempting to sabotage the thread.  You may want to state up front that the presentation of any information does not imply that the person is presenting said evidence in favor of or against anyone or any view.  If a person within this community is in question, members of this community can show support through private messages.  

Agent Cooper wrote in Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread:

gyg wrote in Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread:Just testing the water here rather than starting  a new thread.
As I am sure many of you are aware from other sites there is currently a huge furore going on in the gaming community at large concerning the behaviour of several known figures in the hobby, as well as the perhaps questionable actions of at least one well known company.
My question is, should we be discussing this here? I realise that  this is a collector's community but I can see how this is relevant to us.(I can also see how this might be a little taboo here, but my gut feeling is that we should not just ignore this and hope it goes away).
Like many,I have my own opinions on all of this, but this is my first public post, as I say, to test the water.
Carl

Wut?  How do I not know about this?  Furor?  What happened??

Was it Wizards again?  What did they do, release a 5.1 edition or something?

If it's what I'm thinking it is, it's the flap between Frank and Dragonsfoot.

Fair points made here. For better or for worse I will put links to the threads I have been following. (Pretty sure there are many others and I haven't even gone to Facebook or Twitter concerning these incidents).
I won't pass too much comment on those involved, it's always tough to get hard facts in such cases so personal investigation can only go so far.


Tenkar's Tavern: The PM that got Frank Mentzer Banned from Dragonsfoot

RPG Industry sexual harassment, Mentzer, abuse and what do we do about it? - Page 88

North Texas RPG Convention Refuses To Listen To Harassment Concerns

Harassment At PaizoCon 2017

Lots of stuff here to take in and being in our particular subset of a small industry perhaps makes it even more difficult to rationalise.

That all being said, I personally feel that the facts of the matter are reasonably clear. The only position I can take as an outsider is that such behaviour is abhorrent to me and I can in no way condone those who are prepared to act as such, nor could I condone those, however well-meaning, who were willing to accept or excuse this behaviour. Some things are not acceptable and those perpetrating malicious harassment in any form do not deserve our sympathy or solidarity; if you ever find yourself doubting that this is the right way to feel just put one of your loved ones in the position of the victim and then consider how you would feel. It's much easier  to discount the feelings of a stranger than it would be if the victim were your daughter or son.

Bit of a ramble, it is what it is.

Carl

"It's much easier to discount the feelings of a stranger than it would be if the victim were your daughter or son"

"Discount the feelings of a stranger"

Reading those two lines back it strikes me that a lazy reader might interpret my words differently. Luckily we have no lazy readers on these forums.

Carl

Yikes!  Hadn't heard about any of this.  And I don't want to know.  I say let's leave it off Acaeum.  Sounds like a hairball we don't want any part of.  My two cents.

And anyway, we have bigger fish to fry.  I just know Wizards is up to something.  They always are.  We must be VIGILANT!

rredmond wrote in Random Thoughts or OT Chit-Chat Thread:harassment discussion

There is no "harassment discussion," because the links gyg provided above are to random flame wars that don't really accuse anyone of anything particularly scandalous. It is essentially a prank whereby our imaginations are supposed to fill in the blanks, & to associate it all with the sexual-harassment discussions that are currently popular in mainstream media.

Well I tested the water and I think the way forward is reasonably clear. Those who want  information will no doubt find it (in some cases from the horses mouth). There is no shortage of stuff out there for good or for ill and I am sure we can all make our own, reasonably informed, decisions.
It's important to remember that good people can make bad decisions, and vice versa. As individuals we can only try to hold ourselves to as high a  standard  as possible and hope that others do likewise.

Carl

Actually, because it looks like it'll be a thing that will be continue to be quoted, it's not reasonable to use two words of my post in his post. Particularly when what I was saying was that the discussion, or whatever word he wants to use, shouldn't be had here. Same as everyone else. And I don't think Carl was proffering click bait, just seeking mature discussion, or whatever, on the topic.